poida Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 have a problem with my 600f3 running rich in no2 cyl. when i bought it,it had been in storage for around 3 years and was running on 3 cyl.once i got it home i worked out which cyl wasnt firing and swapped out the plug which was really sooted up and it ran on all 4 till it sooted up again.have pulled the carbs and cleaned all the varnish off the needles and out of the jets using carb cleaner and compressed air.carb balance is spot on.bike runs heaps better but is still fluffy in the mid range but pulls really strong from around 6500 rpm. no2 plug is still sooting up and i can smell the bike is running rich.all other plugs look great.have swapped around coils and leads to rule out an electrical fault. have run carb/injector cleaner in the tank but no change. diaphrams have no tears or splits.no fuel coming out of overlow hose.bike starts well and idles. jets,needles and floats all look good but i think i must be overlooking something. anyone have any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02 SilverBird Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Do a compression test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 Do a compression test......gday silverbird,if compression was down in that cyl would that cause it to run rich ? was going to pull the carbs again in the morning but will check compression first. forgot to mention in my first post that ive checked the choke valve/needle thing as well in case it was sticking but it was all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02 SilverBird Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 If compression is low it will not fire properly, sooty plug, exhaust will smell rich due to poor combustion. PS I did not see you were from OZ, I have an Aunt, Uncle and cousins over there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 well i spent most of the morning running around trying to find a compression tester that would fit the spark plug hole or at least an adaptor to fit my compression tester but no luck.have had to buy one on ebay.should get it next week.did the running around on the 600 and number 3 wasnt firing till i got it up around 7000rpm and it seemed to clear whatever was blocking the fuel in that cyl and it now runs fine,apart from number 2 still rich.thinking i might take the bike to a track day this week and see if running it at higher revs over a period of time helps. where abouts in oz do your relatives live silverbird? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 How about the Vacuum operated petcock diaphragm. If it has one. Betting it does. If the diaphragm develops a pin hole, or a permeable diaphragm (most likely due to ethanol fuels)... then, when the bike is running, and usually only when the bike is running, will it pull excess fuel through the vacuum line... and into the corresponding carburetor. You just gotta love the ethanol fuels..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02 SilverBird Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 They live somewhere near Perth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 hey i live somewhere near perth. been pretty fortunate over here in the west as ethanol fuels havnt really taken off here yet.its just recently being introduced. will look into the diaphram.im sure whatever the cause is it will be something simple.its just a matter of finding it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhubarbray Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Just thinking out loud here. 6500-7000rpm. Where does the CV carb come off the needle and transition to the main only? I realize it`ll depend on throttle position as well but I don`t know if poida is doing his testing at 1/4, 1/2, or wfo throttle. You say you`ve cleaned the carbs but are you sure all the passages are clear? I had an FJ1200 that I had cleaned the carbs 4 times but it still wouldn`t pull the skin off an onion in 1st gear. Broke down, had them cleaned ultrasonically, brand new bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer212 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 How about the Vacuum operated petcock diaphragm. If it has one. Betting it does. If the diaphragm develops a pin hole, or a permeable diaphragm (most likely due to ethanol fuels)... then, when the bike is running, and usually only when the bike is running, will it pull excess fuel through the vacuum line... and into the corresponding carburetor. You just gotta love the ethanol fuels..... Vacumn comes off #1 carb IIRC. I'd still go with carb clean problem. Carb cleaner and air doesnt do it well. A can of carb cleaner and submerge the carbs works better - but you need a big can to submerge the rack, or pull the individual carbs off the rack and do them individually. Pain in the ass, but works better. If you're getting rich at certain RPM only that's my bet. If you have low compression on one she'd be tougher to start, and you said she starts and idles well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 had the bike at the track yesterday and apart from running rough after scrutineering the bike ran brilliantly.the scrutineer twisted the throttle back a few times with the engine off to see how well it returned so im guessing he may have flooded it .once out on the track i was able to get the revs right up and it cleared itself out. i have to admit i suprised at just how good the old f3 was out on the track.the bigger newer bikes had me on the straights but once it came to braking and cornering i had them.im definately hooked on track days now. had the 600 booked in for my first track day a couple of weeks ago but the day before the radiator sprung a leak so i took my blackbird instead.the blackbird is great on the road but on the track i found it hard work in the corners.had the pilot power front slide on me once and the pilot road 3 was sliding around on almost every corner.wont be running a road 3 on the bike again as it tends to cup on the sides too much so will be going back to the pilotroad 2. have just checked the plugs and 1 and 4 look perfect,2 and 3 are both looking a little rich but identicle to each other.runs standard jets,138 for cyls 1 and 4.140 for 2 and 3.stock headers with a roo racing muffler. on the street it ran fine in the lower revs and also above 6500 rpm but at cruising speeds of 100kph at around5000 5500rpm is where it was fluffy.havnt been able to work out which system in the carb runs that rev range as im reading conflicting opinions online. was thinking it might be a blockage in the actual carb bodies as well so was hoping that by riding it around with carby/injector cleaner in the fuel it might eventually clear it but i really dont know if thats possible or not as im still learning about how carbs work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer212 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 was thinking it might be a blockage in the actual carb bodies as well so was hoping that by riding it around with carby/injector cleaner in the fuel it might eventually clear it but i really dont know if thats possible or not as im still learning about how carbs work. Never, ever happens. Well, not never - but if you had them apart and sprayed them and that didnt clear it, running fuel through it probably wont either. Suspension parts for F2's and F3's are finally coming down a bit too. You can still buy Fox shocks on ebay and Racetech goodies for the front and make a HUGE difference in how that bike will handle a guy your size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Suspension parts for F2's and F3's are finally coming down a bit too. You can still buy Fox shocks on ebay and Racetech goodies for the front and make a HUGE difference in how that bike will handle a guy your size. what are you getting at scott,are you sayin im fat . one of the riders at the track was kind enough to adjust the suspension for me which made a huge difference ,its still a black art to me,but im sure as i get quicker i will be looking for upgrades so will keep your suggestions in mind.have never heard of fox shocks before.the bike's running dunlop sportsmax d211's 180 rear 120x70 front.raised the front fender a bit to give extra clearance and i cant fault the grip they give in the corners yet.only place i could pass the bigger bikes was on the outside through the turns. you have been racing your f2 for a while havnt you scott, do you have any other mod tips you can share ? with the carbs im pretty sure a workmate mentioned quite a while back he had an ultrasonic cleaner so when i see him next will ask him if he still has it and can use it on my carbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer212 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Ultra sonic is for sure the way to go if you have access. Fox shocks are the most common for F2's and F3's. They can still be found around ebay for $300 ish. That's what I have on my F2 and it works pretty well Ohlins used to make them for the F3, but I havent seen one in years. Elka probably makes one now that works for the F3, but a new one will cost you $1000. I have Traxxion cartidges and springs in my F2. A bit more expensive than Race Tech, and probably not worth the added expense. The focus on suspension is because these bikes dont have much in the way of ground clearance anyway. Put a big guy on stock springs and they have way less than that, and you'll be bottoming out the forks a lot - not great when you are leaned over. Go back to the stock front tire size if you can - the taller 120/70 actually slows the steering down because your geometery shallows. And, as you noticed, a stock fender will get rubbed in half by a 120/70 when they get hot. The F3 is maybe the most stable, forgiving chassis Honda ever built. They are way easy to ride fast, especially when setup for the right weight. Still lots of good aftermarket too. Mild cams and flatslide carbs on the track add good horsepower to the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 cheers scott.was a bit concerned about the sizes they fitted, but a few of the racers at the track said a 180 rear is what i should be running on the rear instead of the standard 160 size so i have a bigger contact patch while leant over. but no idea why they fitted a 70 front,unless the dunlops dont come in a 60.have no idea how i will be able to use tyre warmers later on though, theres no room left front or rear.will start looking around for suspension bits.im using sonic springs in my blackbird with 7.5 wt oil and can appreciate the difference correct springs make.picked up another complete unlicenced 97 f3 the other day real cheap so will be able to use that as a parts bike as needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer212 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Most guys that put 120/70s on the front of an old CBR or FZR frankly do it out of ignorance - most sportbikes use 120/70 so these must to. Which is fine - until your fender rubs in half or something worse happens. I don't know about where you are, but here in the US theres a lot of guys running bikes like the SV650 etc that use the 120/60 that they are easily found. You can run the 120/70 on the front if you relocate the fender (remember when hot and moving at speed the tire will swell several MM), but its really only recommended if you have an aftermarket shock that can compensate for the ride height change. The F2/F3 is steering is so sedate anyway that they really like to have the back of the bike jacked up in the air to steepen the steering angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 im in perth western australia ,W.A is often said to stand for "wait awhile" when it comes to getting parts as we dont seem to stock much on this side of oz.. the people that fit the tyres actually run the track days i attend so i thought they would know what they were doing.they only sell dunlops and looking at the dunlop website the d211 front dosnt come in a 120 60 size(not that i can find anyway).once these tyres are worn i will look to replace them with a different brand that has the 120 60 front in a sticky tyre.any recomendations? problem im having now is after getting a compression tester the adaptor is stuck in the head.the adaptor unscrewed off the hose when i went to remove it from the head.. put a little bit of blue loctite on the hose fitting and screwed it back into the adaptor and now thats stuck too. any tips on getting the damn thing out would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 ok i got the comp tester off by sliding a piece of steel tube down the comp hose and pushing it down onto the fitting while turning it with multi grips.next time i will be making damn sure the adaptors are really tight on the hose before using it.live and learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer212 Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I'm a bit partial to Pirelli, partly because I like the way they feel and partly because they used to send me checks when I hung out at the track. They have gone from merely pricey to just plain expensive though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.