Custom maps on the Dyno

[JamesXX]

So I've decided to go for the Akrapovic 4-2-1, PC III and air filter mod. Louie at partmonster made me a deal I couldn't refuse. My girlfriend, always a happy passenger on the XX, doesn't understand why I can't refuse it, but I tell her that it's hard to explain.

I'm wondering whether the $$$ on a custom map for the PCIII is worth it. I'm already past my budget, but if you're gonna do it, I figure do it properly. If I cheap out now, I'll just be annoyed at myself next season. Ride now, pay later!

Question is to you guys, is it worth it to get the extra 10-15% optimization, vs using a map off the dynojet website?

And also, if yes, I've been reading about the importance of maintaining a consistent engine temp, etc., during the mapping process. It's gonna be done at AMI Sport (in Laval, QC), who know Hondas pretty well (they're a performance shop who were also a Honda dealer). I did a baseline run a few weeks ago at the same shop, and the bike pulled 128rwhp. But I noticed that it took him so long to find the right wire on the ECU, that the engine temp was 102 C (215 f) during the runs. Normal operating temp is around 82 C (180 f).

What makes the mapping process go well, or go badly, if anything? Anything I should look out for? I.e., should I ensure that the operator doesn't get rushed and not wait for the bike to cool down between pulls? What is the ideal engine temp for mapping? Is there one?

Thanks for your expertise!

[EVLXX]

First off...

There's no need to spend a ton of time trying to find the right wore on the back of the ECU, all he was looking for was a good place to get acurate RPM readings, which is under the tank on either side, just behind the plastic cover, there you find the coil lead wires, and can hook to them without removeing any parts.

Secondly, He has To block of the PAIR system somehow first, otherwise you'll never get acurate AFR readings. But first I would act dumb and see if he knows this... if not, I'ld find another Mechanic.

Along those lines, there's an easy way to plug the system without have to remove the complete airbox.

If you haven't already removed the PAIR system yourself, PM me and I'll explian more on that.

Keeping your engine at the same operating temperature during the Mapping is also critical, since any large changes in the cylinder temperature will drasticly affect the power output, and hence your mapping progress.

Then it's also important what kind of Dyno machine is used to complete the mapping.

Here read this for some extra knowledge in that area...

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0102_dyno/

...

In the end, you'll have to decide if it was all worth it or not.

I could keep going and going on this one and write pages of my own accounts, but I'm short on time tonight, so hopefully some others will add their 2 cents in for you as well.

Goodluck.

[JamesXX]

There's no need to spend a ton of time trying to find the right wore on the back of the ECU, all he was looking for was a good place to get acurate RPM readings, which is under the tank on either side, just behind the plastic cover, there you find the coil lead wires, and can hook to them without removeing any parts.

Hmmm... was he too lazy to remove the plastics, I wonder.

Secondly, He has To block of the PAIR system somehow first, otherwise you'll never get acurate AFR readings. But first I would act dumb and see if he knows this... if not, I'ld find another Mechanic.

Along those lines, there's an easy way to plug the system without have to remove the complete airbox.

Thanks for the info. PAIR is still on the bike. Question: Are they necessarily gonna take AFR readings? Can they tune on their Dynojet 250 without them?

Keeping your engine at the same operating temperature during the Mapping is also critical, since any large changes in the cylinder temperature will drasticly affect the power output, and hence your mapping progress.

I figure to target somewhere between 82 C and 86 C as standard operating temp. But I fear that it would start to run noticeably different at 102, where the thermo starts the fan. This is the art, I guess, of tuning an engine not just for power but also rideability.

Then it's also important what kind of Dyno machine is used to complete the mapping.

It's a Dynojet 250, an eddy-current dyno, but I don't think they have the gas analyzer addition (I may be wrong). But I was told on the phone that printouts of the A/F mix would not be available if I did the tuning at their shop (as well as the Akra installatoin). Is this normal?

[EVLXX]

There's no need to spend a ton of time trying to find the right wore on the back of the ECU, all he was looking for was a good place to get acurate RPM readings, which is under the tank on either side, just behind the plastic cover, there you find the coil lead wires, and can hook to them without removeing any parts.

Hmmm... was he too lazy to remove the plastics, I wonder.

Probably more like... he didn't know where the coils are, and how easy they are to access on our Birds.

Secondly, He has To block of the PAIR system somehow first, otherwise you'll never get acurate AFR readings. But first I would act dumb and see if he knows this... if not, I'ld find another Mechanic.

Along those lines, there's an easy way to plug the system without have to remove the complete airbox.

Thanks for the info. PAIR is still on the bike. Question: Are they necessarily gonna take AFR readings? Can they tune on their Dynojet 250 without them?

AFR reading are a must, they canNOT tune without them.

Keeping your engine at the same operating temperature during the Mapping is also critical, since any large changes in the cylinder temperature will drasticly affect the power output, and hence your mapping progress.

I figure to target somewhere between 82 C and 86 C as standard operating temp. But I fear that it would start to run noticeably different at 102, where the thermo starts the fan. This is the art, I guess, of tuning an engine not just for power but also rideability.

Correct.

Then it's also important what kind of Dyno machine is used to complete the mapping.

It's a Dynojet 250, an eddy-current dyno, but I don't think they have the gas analyzer addition (I may be wrong). But I was told on the phone that printouts of the A/F mix would not be available if I did the tuning at their shop (as well as the Akra installatoin). Is this normal?

A Dynojet 250 is Not an Eddy-current Dyno. They are 2 completely different machines... as I alreay pointed out with the Link I provided for you.

Then, to answer the second part of that, If the shop Can't give you an AFR printout....

... I'ld be seriuosly wondering WHY NOT ?

..

Now I understand that everybody does not live here in Colorado, so your going to have to find a really good Dynojet tuner in your neck of the woods... otherwise I'ld tell you to go see Bart. Bart has been tuning with Dyno's for over 20 years. My point is... you need to find someone.. that's either extremely gifted or extremely experienced.

Personnaly... and just going off of what you wrote... I'ld be looking for another shop.

[JamesXX]

Thanks, EVLXX, for all the advice.

I called them back, and after another short, dour conversation where he didn't know what I meant by the PAIR system, I cancelled my tuning appointment.

...And made another one at Picotte Performance, in Granby, Quebec (not too far from Montreal). Pascal Picotte (the AMA racer) opened up this shop a few years ago in his hometown, and someone recommended it to me. The guy who works the dyno there is an actual tuner with 25+ years experience (they build superbikes there), and I'm much more optimistic.

I don't know if the other shop either didn't know anything, or just didn't give a shit, but same difference.

BTW - Great article from Sport Rider. I was confused because dynojet say that the 250 has an "eddy-current" load control on their inertial dyno: http://www.dynojet.com/motorcycle_dyno/250i_dyno/index.aspx

[EVLXX]

Good.

I'm glad that, from the sounds of it, you're on the right track now.

[JohnS]

I have that setup on my bike (except the filter) and can share some of my experience.

I would only use an operator with a Eddy Current type dyno that is using the Tuning Link software.

Tuning Link takes the operator skills out of the equation and works well.

You must isolate or remove the PAIR system

You must fit a o2 sensor eliminator if you have a FI bike with one.

When mine was done it was great and compared to the stock Dynojet map for an Akrapovic equipped bike it ran a lot better.

142hp and 85 foot pounds torque.

John Samson