Obby Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 So as you know I retired my '97 XX with RaceTech front and Works rear shocks. I bought a near new '01, 14k mi. '01 Redbird with stock suspension. I cannot believe that the difference is that huge . The redbird's stock suspension kicks back on every little bump. It's killing my back on my daily 64mi. commute. I decided to rebuild the redbird suspension (here's where it get's juicey). My wife is not very understanding on this subject. She was already upset that I put out the cash for the new bird without first selling the other (somewhat understandable I guess). I just can't take that stock suspension. It suck's! Like riding a gsxr1000 or something (i see them bouncing down the road all time). So a new retrofit will cost about $1~1500.00 front and rear. Help me out guys... How can I justify this??? Regards all, Sore back... -Obby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hey_allen Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 If the 97 isn't sold yet, can you salvage any of the upgraded suspension? Just a thought there, as I haven't done that much research on the differences between the years, other than the obvious ones. On the side of justifying it, mention that it is to help prevent accidents (loss of control due to back fatigue?) and will reduce chance of lower back injury? Best of luck! (Now I just need to see what the real difference is, between stock suspension, correctly dialed in stock suspension, and correctly setup aftermarket suspension..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para045 Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 If the 97 isn't sold yet, can you salvage any of the upgraded suspension? Just a thought there, as I haven't done that much research on the differences between the years, other than the obvious ones. On the side of justifying it, mention that it is to help prevent accidents (loss of control due to back fatigue?) and will reduce chance of lower back injury? Best of luck! (Now I just need to see what the real difference is, between stock suspension, correctly dialed in stock suspension, and correctly setup aftermarket suspension..) Ditto no swapping the suspension over - If you haven't sold the old one that is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beondwacko Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Maybe you could also use the excuse of that the stock set up also makes riding hard on your wrists? Dead end excuse. I'd love the chance to ride another members modified XX just to feel first hand how much work mine could use. I just so used to the way it feels that I don't know any different. Maybe some day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obby Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 The difference is mind blowing IMHO. The racetech work on my front shocks of my '97 has the spring, gold valving, and somthing else done (complete rebuilt). The rear shock on my '97 is a custom made 'Works' shock with remote dampener adjustment dial (fully adjustable). This shock was the first 'developed' by Works for the guy that I bough my '97 from. What all that comes down to is that... when your bikes weight/suspension is under compression, it's absorb better, much better. Not to say that you won't have any feedback, but your tires will stay on track under extreme stress (if they have somthing to grab onto). The opposite would be... when under stress the bike bounces all the fuck over the place (jaring your back, wrists, teeth filings, ect...) Randy??? You out there to add some advice on this subject? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrich Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 The difference is mind blowing IMHO. The racetech work on my front shocks of my '97 has the spring, gold valving, and somthing else done (complete rebuilt). The rear shock on my '97 is a custom made 'Works' shock with remote dampener adjustment dial (fully adjustable). This shock was the first 'developed' by Works for the guy that I bough my '97 from. What all that comes down to is that... when your bikes weight/suspension is under compression, it's absorb better, much better. Not to say that you won't have any feedback, but your tires will stay on track under extreme stress (if they have somthing to grab onto). The opposite would be... when under stress the bike bounces all the fuck over the place (jaring your back, wrists, teeth filings, ect...) Randy??? You out there to add some advice on this subject? Go buy a shock and get your forks done? Sounds pretty simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shovelstrokeed Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 At the very minimum, spend some time setting the sag on the stock stuff. If your rear is way harsh it may be from not enough preload (you didn't say what you weigh). The rear shock is not that horrible if allowed to operate in its working range. I had a similar problem when I bought my VFR. Hated the bike. A good friend, who used to work as a wrench for Erion Racing helped me get the sag correct and it transformed the bike. Previous owner, also a friend, weighs 165 lbs and when I bought the VFR I was 235 and was operating the shock in the very bottom of its range. Got the preload up a few turns and things smoothed right out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonW Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Steve, I just don't understand.......... The solution to your problem is right there on your old bike. Swap out the forks and rear shock and it's done. They're already set up for you. It couldn't be any more simple than that. Besides, the suspension parts on your '97 aren't going to raise the value of the bike much and probably wouldn't be set up properly for the new owner anyway. What are you waiting for?...........Swap 'em out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warchild Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 If you aren't going to swap out yor '97 suspension components (for whatever reason), than you probably want to consider doing the Axxion AK-20 Group Buy when it lights off next week. In addition to the front forks, CTS Moto is also going to offer a combined deal and have Penske Racing shocks as part of the GB package. He'll offer the Penske 8981 double adjustable for $705 (retail is $795) and also the Penske 8987 triple adjustable for $1050 (retail is $1175). I believe Traxxion Dynamics will dial-in the shock for you according to your specifications/ride habits, and that, combined with the AK-20 cartridges, you'll be living the Good Life, 'bro, trust me! I tells ya what, gentlemen, every time I ride Night Train now that those AK-20 cartridges are installed, the XX is like an entirely different bike (mind you, I have the high-end Wilbers #641 shock dial-in pretty well, including a 5mm ride height increase). My XX now steers light as a feather compared to before, and I have a LOT more feedback on what the front end is doing under any given riding condition. The Axxion cartridges are what this bike has needed all along!!!! The results are just frickin' unbelieveable, you just have to experience it to appreciate it. :icon_thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obby Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 Steve, I just don't understand.......... The solution to your problem is right there on your old bike. Swap out the forks and rear shock and it's done. They're already set up for you. It couldn't be any more simple than that. Besides, the suspension parts on your '97 aren't going to raise the value of the bike much and probably wouldn't be set up properly for the new owner anyway. What are you waiting for?...........Swap 'em out. True, I know that, but what makes me hesitae is that the '97's suspension has probably 40k or her. Is it really worth all the wrenching and downtime to do that work? You guys let me know. One other thing, the '01 bird is cherry. Do I really want to put dinged up front forks and rear spring on this bike? Thanks in advance for the advice :icon_think: . -Obby Ps. I hope I explained that right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 Swapping the forks and shock would take maybe 2 hours. If you're finding the stock setup as horrible as you say, that seems like a small price to pay. If looks and age are a concern, have the shock serviced and paint the spring. Forks are probably due as well, and you could powder coat the sliders while you had them off and dismantled for service. Yes, that gets a little more involved, but it still beats the hell out of dropping $2000.00 on something you already own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obby Posted April 9, 2006 Author Share Posted April 9, 2006 Swapping the forks and shock would take maybe 2 hours. If you're finding the stock setup as horrible as you say, that seems like a small price to pay. If looks and age are a concern, have the shock serviced and paint the spring. Forks are probably due as well, and you could powder coat the sliders while you had them off and dismantled for service. Yes, that gets a little more involved, but it still beats the hell out of dropping $2000.00 on something you already own. Good point taken :icon_think: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flipy351 Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Re my back is killing me. When I got my bird I had the same problem. The cure was to run tyres at 36psi, set damper adjusting screw to mid adjustment and reduce preload on rear spring. I adjusted rear spring so that it had just enough pre load about 2 to 3 turns to keep spring settled. I dont have the back problems now and bike still handles well. I also raised the suspension with a couple of washers to space it up. Note that to adjust the spring you need to take it out of the bike. Also the adjusting rings are damn tight I could only move the lock ring with a air rattle gun. Also the mettle is soft and will damage easily. Now no more back problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 LEAVE IT ALONE! It'll wear out soon enough.... why put a worn out set on a new bike????? How much do you wiegh... what's your Sag set at, etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obby Posted April 9, 2006 Author Share Posted April 9, 2006 LEAVE IT ALONE! It'll wear out soon enough.... why put a worn out set on a new bike????? How much do you wiegh... what's your Sag set at, etc. etc. I weight 222lbs. I set the dampener to the S (soft) position. That's all for now. Do I need to pull it out and adjust the spring preload? I think it's in the stock setting as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 It'll wear out soon enough.... From what he's said, it's probably already worn out. Overhauling what he has is still waaay cheaper than starting from scratch. And now that I'm thinking about it, it won't be much more effort, either. No matter what you decide to do, the forks and shock are going to have to come off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZDave Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Why swap the whole forks? Just swap the cartridges over. All the valves, shims etc are all in the cartridges and you get to keep the new shiny outside bits like sliders and legs. And it’s probably easier than swapping the whole fork anyway. They are only held in by an allen headed bolt. Or am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Why swap the whole forks? Just swap the cartridges over. All the valves, shims etc are all in the cartridges and you get to keep the new shiny outside bits like sliders and legs. And it's probably easier than swapping the whole fork anyway. They are only held in by an allen headed bolt. Or am I missing something? The only reason I haven't suggested that is there were some internal changes to the forks between '97 and '01. I'm thinking it should still work fine, but I'm not positive. So I didn't want to recommned something I'm not sure would go smoothly. That's certainly what I would try first, but I'm comfortable removing and disassembling the front end. If there were complications, I'd just go back to plan "A". It might not be so simple for someone paying for the work to be done or less familiar with the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZDave Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Good point! I think the changes are valving rates only but I'm not positive either. When I suggested that option I never even considered model diferences anyway. Thanks for catching it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shovelstrokeed Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Obby, At 222 lbs your likely not running enough preload on the stock rear shock and that is what is making it harsh to you. The stock setting is for a rider of around 170 lbs. Get in there and crank about 4 or 5 turns of preload in. The difference will be substantial. It won't be up to par with an aftermarket shock but it will be a bunch better. I know it doesn't sound right but give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obby Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 Obby, At 222 lbs your likely not running enough preload on the stock rear shock and that is what is making it harsh to you. The stock setting is for a rider of around 170 lbs. Get in there and crank about 4 or 5 turns of preload in. The difference will be substantial. It won't be up to par with an aftermarket shock but it will be a bunch better. I know it doesn't sound right but give it a try. Thanks everyone. Alot of good options offered here. As for cranking down the preload. Is that right? Compress the spring more? It's kicking back on bumps as it is. When I sit on it, it doesn't drop alot, about the same as my '97, maybe 2 inches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneXX Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Obby, At 222 lbs your likely not running enough preload on the stock rear shock and that is what is making it harsh to you. The stock setting is for a rider of around 170 lbs. Get in there and crank about 4 or 5 turns of preload in. The difference will be substantial. It won't be up to par with an aftermarket shock but it will be a bunch better. I know it doesn't sound right but give it a try. Thanks everyone. Alot of good options offered here. As for cranking down the preload. Is that right? Compress the spring more? It's kicking back on bumps as it is. When I sit on it, it doesn't drop alot, about the same as my '97, maybe 2 inches. Giving it more preload keeps in it's working range. IIRC 35 mm should be your sag in the rear. If you're at 2" you have way too much sag and your compressing the shock too much. Shortening it's effective range of motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obby Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 Obby, At 222 lbs your likely not running enough preload on the stock rear shock and that is what is making it harsh to you. The stock setting is for a rider of around 170 lbs. Get in there and crank about 4 or 5 turns of preload in. The difference will be substantial. It won't be up to par with an aftermarket shock but it will be a bunch better. I know it doesn't sound right but give it a try. Thanks everyone. Alot of good options offered here. As for cranking down the preload. Is that right? Compress the spring more? It's kicking back on bumps as it is. When I sit on it, it doesn't drop alot, about the same as my '97, maybe 2 inches. Giving it more preload keeps in it's working range. IIRC 35 mm should be your sag in the rear. If you're at 2" you have way too much sag and your compressing the shock too much. Shortening it's effective range of motion. Just kidding, I think I'm following ya. This is just one course of action I'm thinking about. I'm also going to check with Works and Racetech to see what should be done IF I decide to try a swap (especially Racetech as I'm not sure how much work was done - bought it that way). PS... and just FYI folks. The suspension is night a day when modified correctly. That and the HID were my two best mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obby Posted April 13, 2006 Author Share Posted April 13, 2006 I just wanted to give a quick update on this thread. Many of you were right, go figure . I recently spoke to the previous owner of my '97 XX. He has had recommended that I swap the forks as mentioned here. Primarily due to the extensive and expensive work that he said was done to them. I will take his word, IMHO, he is a stand up motocyclist for many years and has done many, many mod's over the years to all his armada of race and sports bikes. He said that the front forks were modded with more than the standard GOLD KIT and Valving that I thought was done. The forks were, in layman's term, completley rebuilt and tuned for him (6'2 120lbs as me). His weight and height are very close to my own. So in his opinion, I am a good fit for the current front and rear suspension as-is (recommending changing the oil in the front and checking for leaks frront and rear of course). This in mind, I will be swapping the suspension, front and rear, and having them powdercoated or re-polished as neccessary (hopefully before the TBME Meet!). Thanks again for all your posts. I have a wrench, but hate to use it if not needed (IT'S NEEDED!). -Obby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.