XX4me

My 02 has bulbs. The tach has one on the lower left hand corner and one on the upper right hand corner.

Sorry but just because they post something on the net doesn't make them an expert. Have you ever had an XX motor apart? Refering back to your post about Haynes the bird has cast in sleeves. If you want to talk about reducing structural integrity look at an XX engine block and think about boring the original sleeve out and continuing to remove metal so as to be able to resleeve. Ain't gonna work there won't be enough aluminium left between the cylinder and coolent passage.

Ok look here is the definitive answer. They are not plated. I had my 2003 bored out when the piston melted. It's not plated. I had this same discussion with the guy from Gatlin racing. He swore up and down that they were plated. NOT! I had the head mechanic at the local shop call the Honda tech line and they said cast in/ non-removable sleeve not plated.

It's a typo you don't need plating on steel sleeves.

The Blackbird has steel sleeves. No plating required, but it will have to be bored.

With Chris making the move to a big bore kit and my rebuild on the turbobike is it possible to get a section for horsepower building posts. I planned on doing a long post with pics when I get mine dyno'd describing everything I've done and the costs ect. It would be nice if there was a section where we could post our adventures.

COOL! It all really depends on how much you want to spend. From what I gathered on the "other" site you won't need rods or clutch basket if you are under 200 HP. But, if you have it apart anyway..... If you are getting the head ported and polished I have heard good things about carpenterracing.com. Carillo rods (mostly insurance) = $1000.00 Falicon super crank (lightened balanced and polished) = $700.00 Falicon Billet clutch basket (insurance) = $395.00

I'm looking forward to it as well. Before and after dyno runs will be interesting. Are you planning on having the head ported, adding different cams or any other mods while you have her apart?

I payed a little over $600.00 for the JE 9:1 compression 1/2 millimeter over bore pistons in my bike.

(Updated with current info 12-18-03) Thought you guys might find this interesting. I had my XX injectors tested and they have a static flow rate of 335cc/min @43psi. This equates out to a max horsepower of around 260 (done mathmatically so results may vary somewhat) before the injectors start malfunctioning caused by excessive duty cycle. This is to say they may not allow enough fuel at high RPMs and boost levels in a turbocharged application. So if we are trying to make HORSEPOWER what we need is an injector that flows more fuel than stock without having to do modifications of any sort and with a PCIII and fuel pressure regulator we can adjust down to compensate for the higher flow rate when at low RPMs. This will allow more horsepower at a reasonable duty cycle, without any fear of running out of fuel causing a lean/heat condition because an injector failed. After some research I found that Keihin, the company that made our injectors, also made six other flow rates for the same style injector. If you look at the Keihin-us.com website (under OEM/products/fuel injectors/english) they show 6 different fuel delivery rates for the KN4 style, which is what we have, at two different fuel pressures. Keihin Drawing#.........KN flow%....Max Flow.......Pressure D30NA-AY4-0200-------25%-------=13.99lbs/hr @ 42.7psi ----------------------------------------=15.27lbs/hr @ 49.8psi D30NA-AY4-0300-------STD--------=18.58lbs/hr @ 42.7psi -----------------------------------------=20.28lbs/hr @ 49.8psi D30NA-AN1-0101------+30%-------=24.17lbs/hr @ 42.7psi -----------------------------------------=26.36lbs/hr @ 49.8psi D30NA-AN1-0200------+60%-------=29.71lbs/hr @ 42.7psi -----------------------------------------=32.37lbs/hr @ 49.8psi D30NA-AY4-0400------+90%--------=35.26lbs/hr @ 42.7psi ------------------------------------------=38.45lbs/hr @ 49.8psi Reference--------------+156%-------=47.32lbs/hr @ 42.7psi The tricky part was no one knew what they were used in. They can tell you the Honda part number but not the keihin number and only if you know which car. By chance I stumbled across part of the puzzle while searching ebay. An individual was selling injectors for a 2000-2003 Honda S2000 car and lo and behold they match ours. So I then searched the web for S2000 forums and found http://forums.s2ki.com/forums, After doing a search on injectors I found out the ones in the S2000 flow 360-380cc/ 38lb per hour depending on who you ask and fuel pressure used at time of test. I had the ones I bought tested by Marren Fuel Injection (injector.com) and they had a static flow rate of 390cc/min @43psi. After some searching for phone numbers I managed to get in touch with Paul Rodgers of Keihin USA. He was able to answer some of the questions I had regarding the KN4 injector. First off he said the letters and numbers on the injectors don't signify specific models or flow rates but rather manufacturing date and batch codes. Therefore all the speculating I did regarding the ABS-E vs. B that are marked on the injectors is out the window. He said there is no way he knows of to differentiate between the different flow rates by looking at the injector. Removing an injector from a specific application or getting the number off the parts bag with the Honda label are the only ways aside from having it tested of knowing what the flow rate is. I asked him about the chart on the Keihin-us.com site that showed different flow rates and he said those are the standard sizes offered by his company but that a customer like Honda can call up and have the injectors made for a specific flow rate. This means our injectors may or may not be one of the standard flow rates listed. Another aspect about the chart he clarified was the area under the Q=mm3/st. It has to do with the dynamic flow rate. How much fuel is flowed at 2 milliseconds, 6 milliseconds ect. He also mentioned that the spray patterns would be the same no matter the flow rate for that style injector and that variation in the static flow rates between injectors of the same size would be no greater than 1-2%. That's about all I was able to get out of him that didn't fall under proprietary information. So looking at the keihin chart it appears we have the 60% model or something close to it and the S2000 has the +90% model or something close to that. They are the same physical dimensions and impedance, just different flow rates. Next quest will be to find out what applications the others were used on. The PCIII should compensate for the increased flow at low rpm since it's only a 15% increase. Today I talked with RC engineering (rceng.com) and managed to find out the new Civic SI has 310cc/30lb per hour injectors. Oddly enough the Suzuki Hayabusa which uses the exact same style is quoted as having a flow rate of 280 cc/min. I can't verify that for certain, but that's what they reported on suzukihayabusa.org. This gives us a number of choices. Because the S2000 guys want more power/fuel too they go for after market injectors at $90.00 a pop. This means they have some perfectly good injectors sitting on their shelves collecting dust which they might part with. Elixxer posted an ad on the S2K forum and scored four for $100.00. You can do like I did and search ebay every few days for Honda injectors until some go up for auction, I got mine for $50.00 for a set of 4 new in bags, or you can stroll down to the Honda auto dealer and ask for the injectors for the S2000 at $120.00 each. The fuel pressure changes after the '00 model and so there is a different part number for the fuel pressure regulators on the '01-'03 models.. '99-'00 has a fuel pressure of 43 psi '01-'03 has a fuel pressure of 50 psi The part numbers for all the stock XX injectors are the same irregardless of year. Kind of long winded I know but I hope this helps. CBR1100XX injectors flow 335 cc/min @ 43 psi fuel pressure S2000 injectors flow 390 cc/min @ 43 psi fuel pressure Forrest

For all you power hungry NA guys. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...item=2445170968

Did a search on pair/sucker over at suzukihayabusa.org and found some info. It doesn't seem to cause any problems and some claim there is a power gain. Unfortunately no one did back to back dyno runs before and after to document changes.

How would it make the piston rings seat better? I don't understand.

My bike suffered from a lean condition and detonation due to poor tuning of the turbo. There was absolutely no damage what so ever to the crank, rods, bearing, ect. The only damage was on two pistons and cylinder walls and two exhaust valves. Here are the pictures. http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forum/viewtopic.p...4525&highlight=

Are they going to cover any of the damage? If not let me know I have some perfectly good stock piston rods I might be persuaded to let go of. I also know where a person might find a crank. Advice: Don't bother with the 1200cc bigbore kit I have seen what the block looks like after boring and there isn't much metal left between the cylinders. I did mine 1/2 millimeter over and it left quite a bit of steel. If you have to get new pistons go with some custom ones from JE they'll make whatever compression ratio you want for about $650.00. Forrest

After some searching for phone numbers I managed to get in touch with Paul Rodgers of Keihin USA. He was able to answer some of the questions I had regarding the KN4 injector. First off he said the letters and numbers on the injectors don't signify specific models or flow rates but rather manufacturing date and batch codes. Therefore all the speculating I did regarding the ABS-E vs. B is out the window. He said there is no way he knows of to differentiate between the different flow rates by looking at the injector. Removing an injector from a specific application or getting the number off the parts bag with the Honda label are the only ways aside from having it tested of knowing what the flow rate is. I asked him about the chart on the Keihin US site that showed different flow rates and he said those are the standard sizes offered by his company but that a customer like Honda can call up and have the injectors made for a specific flow rate. This means our injectors may or may not be one of the standard flow rates listed. Another aspect about the chart he clarified was the area under the Q=mm3/st. It has to do with the dynamic flow rate. How much fuel is flowed at 2 milliseconds, 6 milliseconds ect. He also mentioned that the spray patterns would be the same no matter the flow rate for that style injector and that variation in the flow rates between injectors of the same size would be no greater than 1-2%. That's about all I was able to get out of him that didn't fall under proprietary information. Hope it helps.

Good point. The change probaly had to do with some sort of fucking mandate from the EPA.

Checked with Honda today about the fuel pressure regulator. Dean, you were absolutely right the 99-00 models use the 43lb regulator and the 01-03 and possibly 04 use the 50lb regulator. I also checked on injectors and all years use the same one. This means I can drop my low rpm off boost fuel pressure from 50lbs down to 43lbs and not have to remove as much fuel with the PCIII. Cool.

I think I came up with that number using the calculator on the RCeng.com site based on assumed flow rate and duty cycle.

HUH? You sure you checked with someone who spoke English? I haven't checked the connectors......it's possible that the connects are teh same and that the PCII will work on the '02....just won't mod all the inputs. PCIII shouldn't work on the '99 system because all the inputs aren't there......whether it hooks up or not. I'd love to have the PCIII for mine.....just to use the accelerator pump. Anyway.........you'd need the system off an '02 to be able to use the PCIII as far as I know. It would plug into an earlier bike......just have to supply a fake input for the lambda, I think it is. Right Joe, What they told me was the PCII will plug right inline with the PCIII and I should zero out all the values except the ignition retard. That way it wouldn't double dip into fuel. I'll let you know in about a week if it works or not. ralfybebedosekys, Elton Fish at EFR racing has a harness to do just that, BUT....... He does the work won't sell the parts.

Something I'm going to check on tomorrow is that there is indeed a difference in part numbers between the '99 pressure regulator and after '99. Looking at the manual I noticed there is a different pressure rating for '99 compared to the other years. Good thing is it's lower. This may mean we can install the regulator from a '99 which operates at 43 psi instead of 50psi. That's a 14% decrease in pressure which may be enough to fall in the range of adjustment for the PCII and certainly will help even the PCIII. Partsfish sells the regulators for around $36.00.

If you read Gary Evans' posts about larger injectors the key isn't just the PC adjustments it's also the fuel pressure. If the pressure is lower at idle then you don't need as much electronic adjustment. In your case I wouldn't worry about it just yet it's something you can easily add later when we get the bugs sorted out. And like you said maybe you could go one or even two sizes bigger with ease.

? According to Dynojet I can hook up a PCII to my 2002 for ignition retard purposes by just plugging it in. Might call them and see.

I think the Civic is the closest one but there isn't any way to find out other than looking at injectors from various models since Honda car, Honda bike and Keihin part numbers are all different. eliXXir (Dean) figured out that the busa also uses the same style injector as the XX just the next size up. Check out this thread http://pub31.ezboard.com/fazbiketechfrm9.s...picID=334.topic

Pictures are always good. CBR1100XX on the left Honda S2000 on the right.