pug
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Posts posted by pug
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Just measured front sag very briefly (with the aid of my assistant), might not be accurate
10 to 15mm static, 30 to 35 mmmm with me on the bike.
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You need to get sag measuements to see where you're at. To late for "before" measurements, but the "after" measurements are what matters now, anyway.
If I recall from a previous thread, the ZZR spings are good bit heavier than the XX stockers, I'd be interested in where your sag ended up and your weight.
Tim, my 'before' static sag was in the ballpark, i.e. about 30 to 35 mm front and 5 to 10 mm rear with the already mentioned setup. I am not accurate because I did it alone with a tie-wrap in the fork. My weight is about 108 kg.
Anyway is very difficult to setup suspension the last few days in Athens. We have clouds coming from Africa and when it rains, it rains Sahara's sand. Today before leaving for work, I decreased rear preload 1mm (to 13 mm) and the XX spins almost everywhere (with a good Pilot Power rear).
Soon I"ll post sag numbers with the new setup.
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Have you done valving or is it still OEM on the forks?
No revalving yet. I think I would like more compression damping.
Another -more expensive- route is to change the internals (cartridge)
so I'll get adjustments as well, but I don't feel THAT sick (for the time).
Arctic, I thinh you had your forks revalved, do you have any precise specs?
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The zzr springs are now installed.
Before starting I gave the bird a good wash and before starting dissasembly I took some measurements.
I measured the ride height fore and aft.
My suspension settings wer Hyperpro springs at the front with forks 46 mm above tripple clamp, where at the rear is -same length with std- WP shock with a 18 kg spring with 14 mm preload and 4mm shimming.
In the front I took as datum point the distance from the top fairing's middle bolt to the floor, while at the rear I used the rack's front bolt. Since I didn't have any helping hand, I put the bike to the wall as upright as I could.
Front was about 81.9 cm and rear 103 cm.
One thing I forgot to do was to check my tire pressures. Because of the washing might be a couple psi down. Last time I checked them was last Monday (42 psi).
Then I took the forks off and got the springs out of them.
Also I had a second set of spacers which I had cut to 173mm when I tried some preload adjusters.
In the photos you can see all of my springs-spacers collection:
After replacing the used oil with TORCO SAE 10 at 140mm, I put the ZZR's springs with the shortened spacers. Combined lenght is 443 mm while the std combination is about 433 mm. That means that I have 10 mm preload over std. While compressing the right leg before puting it on the bike, I noticed a crieking (is that right?) noise. Strangely, the left leg wasn't producing any strange noises. I pulled the spring off and I couldn't see any signs of contact with the leg. One thing that I noticed is that the lower I.D. of the ZZR spring is smaller than the other's.
After putting the forks onto the bike, I did the ride height measurements. Well at the front was about the same but at the rear was almost 1 cm lower. The only technical explanation I can give is that weight distribution was changed. Or I didn't put the bike to the wall as in the initiall measurement...
Ridewise, my first impressions (about 15 miles mostly 2-up) is that the bike rides higher at the front but compared to HYPERPRO it rides better over potholes and bumps. I increased afterwards the 'fork above tripple clamp' to 47 mm but I only rode it around the block.
I think that my next step will be to shorten the spacers 10 mm.
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0W40
She spins freely and runs oh so cool
I meant which Amsoil type, not which weight.
Generally, I don't trust oils starting with 0W and this is based on
a Kev Cameron's editorial I read few years ago.
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If I was leaving in US, Penske would have been my No1 choice.
Back in '97 when I was finishing my degree in UK, I discussed whith my tutors
doing some work for my FYP on a racing shock. I remember that Penske (new then in UK)
was highly appreciated.
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4 qts
10/40
dont even start with which brand!
:icon_wall:
Over here we have very good olive oil. If anybody wants I can send some
Seriously, I can find AMSOIL now in Greece. Do you reccomend it over the Motul 300 V and if yes which type?
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Received zzr springs yesterday. Final cost 59 Euros.
Free length is 271mm, diameter identical with stock.
I guess I have work for the weekend...
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Arctic, do you use all of your rear tire when you scraping the pegs? If you don't, I am quite sure that your rear is riding low. In this case I would consider shimming and/or stiffer spring.
Does this happens when you hit a bump mid-turn or in a completely flat road. If the latter happens maybe you need more compression damping, i.e. an aftermarket shock.
Personally, I have used all of my rear tire but I 've never felt my pegs scraping, but I run 4mm shim in the rear and a 18 kg/mm rear spring but I am considerably heavier than you.
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I'm changing out the clutch and brake fluid on my 97 Bird this weekend. Is there anything that I need to watch out for? I plan on using a MityVac at each bleeder screw and removing the old while replacing the master cylinder with fresh synthetic Dot 4 fluid.
Thanks.
Combined braking system.
Check manual, then proceed.
Over
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Hi, What did you use for the split shims in your stack ? .1 s ? What O.D
Thanks
Herb
I used a 0.05" thick X 0.512" dia (prolly considered a 0.51 but thats what notes said.)
No, thank you for the opportunity to share.
-D
Isn't .05 inches equal to over 1mm ? Are you sure that was not .05 mm ? I think 1mm is is huge for a splitter ? I am i missing somethin here ?
I was planning on using a .1 mm by 20 mm to create a 2 stage stack in my shock .
Thanks herb
1 inch = 25.4 mm
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Hi, first of all i'm a newbie, so ello to all
currently got a gixxer750, but am selling
i've been offered a cbr110 blackbird p reg 96 for 2.5k
has anyone got any advice on this bike good or bad? price good or bad?
is there anywhere online that i can get everything i need to know about this bike?
thanks in advance
There is a lot of good info here and you can also go to superblackbird.com Is the bike all stock, how many miles? The 96/97/98 are carbed bikes and 99 on are fuel infected. Sounds like a good price to me if it's in good shape and working order.
Ηey this is about a bird in UK, so 2.5k is in british pounds so its about 4.5k euros or dollars.
Price doesn't look bad or good either, depends on the bike's condition.
Personally for that kinf of money (maybe little more) I would go for a FI bike.
Check also on Germany in www.mobile.de (they have english) similar to autotrader but way bigger.
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I'm wondering (hoping) that this suspension mod will increase my tire mileage.
Any thoughts?
In the sense that the increased shock spring rate will eliminate weight transfer and hence wheel spin, I tend to agree with you.
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Today I ordered the ZZR1200 front springs from Kawasaki for 42 Euros each (but I'll get a good discount).
Delivery is for next week.
Probably they will be cheaper in US , so I guess if they work they will be a good alternative.
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Kinda OT, but is there any place that sell adjustable caps or another bike's forks that have an adjustable cap that'd fit?
Been there, done that
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Stock fork spring on ZZR1200: length = 269.3mm
service limit is 264mm
Thanks arctic for the info.
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For a XX 1999 Stock spring lenght is 232.9mm (9.17). Service lenght is 228.2mm(8.98 ). I found this info in the service manual.
Ohlins sold a 237mm part no. 08633-95 for XX 97-00. 4.3 mm of difference.
ZZR1200 1999 ohlins Part No. 08685-12 Length 273 mm A Long difference between XX and ZZR1200!! 40.1mm. I think that you will have to reajust your preload.
You can use this web site to find the lenght of other spring for different bike. http://www.ohlins.com/cgi-bin/dbsok/newmen...ist&category=mc It can give you an idea.
Thanks for the info. Only that there was no ZZR1200 in 1999 but this might be a typing mistake.
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As long as the spring has enough coils to not become coil bound (coils close to touching ) in the required distance of movement the length dosen't really matter as the spring is rated as whole not by each coil.
BUT .
If you take two identical springs, material ect. and put one on top of each other (end to end) the rating of the whole system will be halved. So if you put 2 1.0kg.mm springs end to and apply 1 kg load the system of 2 springs will move 2 mm as each spring still sees a 1kg load so you end up with a 1kg/2mm system = .5kg/mm system .
So if you do something to a spring to decrease ist effective coils the rate goes up. One way to do this is cut coils off if there is stilll enough movement left.
In sort the coil spring stiffness formula is:
K= Gd4 / 8D3 N
where
G= shear modulus (assume the same for all springs)
d(to the power of 4) = wire diameter
D (cubed) = coil mean diameter and
N= number of working turns (coils).
So yes if you halve the coils, you double the stiffness.
In cars is common practice to cut coils in order to increase stiffness but do not forget that car springs don't have a finish at the end of the coil like bike fork springs
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Probably, IS a leak from the preload adjuster (although you say that you feel no damping).
Anyway I had a similar incident with my WP unit (and all the preload adjusters of Wp, Ohlins e.t.c. are more or less the same)
To check if it is the hyd. preload, put bike on center stand and give some preload (about 2-3 mm on the preload scale) while watching if the preload ramp on the shock is moving (you can see from the left side. At the same time check if you have a new leak.
If the ramp is not moving then you are sure that is the preload. However there is a chance that if the leak is small and with no weight on the rear wheel , the ramp might move. In this case have someone else put the bike off the stand and check if the preload ramp returns to no preload under bike's weight.
In my case the problem was that the cable was rubbing against the hugger and eventually got a hole. So check cable routing as well.
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I sure would like some one to explain to me what changes with spring length. In my small little mind, the sorter spring get harder quicker when compressed.
Pug not sure why you going from .9 to 1.15. Seams like a big jump
If the spring is of the linear type, it doesn't get any harder. Is the same for all the fork's travel.
If I remember well the fully progressive wound Hyperpros I am using right now, are 1.25 kg/mm (ok, just before full compression but you get the idea). On the other hand, the WPs should have been 10 to 15% heavier than stock, but practically I felt no difference. As I said when I'll find some time I am going to test them and the stockers on a spring dyno. But if the WPs are really close to 1.0kg/mm , then 1.05 springs are not sufficient. That's why I am looking at the 1.15 of ZZR.
Tim, at 108kg I am not lightweight, but I am sure that there are people in this board which are way bigger than me.
Free spring length isn't really a factorWell, if we assume that ZZR's springs are equal length with XX's but the XX's spacers are longer, you end up preloading the springs as much as the XX's spacers are longer. And when you start whith a 30% stiffer spring, that won't be nice.
Right now the only uknown is the ZZR's spring length, if I ''l find this , then I can compare the 2 systems and decide whether I'll have to shorten/lengthen the spacers.
address any damping issues you might have independant of the springs- using methods as simple as changing fork oil weightI am doing this regularly, even with the stock springs I tried many oil weight/level combinations.
as complex as modifying the shim stacksThat will be the final step but for now I do not have the time or the means to do it.
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I was surfing in the RaceTech site and I was thinking which bike is similar to XX? ZZR1200 right?
So the std fork spring rate for the Kawi is 1.15 kg/mm (XX is 0.89 kg/mm).
The most critical dimension (fork tube dia) I think is the same (43 mm), so interchangeability is possible. I checked Kawa's online parts diagramm and the spring collar lenght is 115 mm (I think XX's is 200mm - Tim already gave me this info in the past).
So the only info I am missing is the spring free lenght (which I suspect it will be longer than XX's) and weather is a progressive wound or not.
Until now I have tried WP springs (slightly heavier than std - no increase to bottoming ressistance, I have arranged with the local importer to test them and the OEM on his spring dyno but I didn't have time so far), and Hyperpros which are very hard for anything less than a perfect road (yes no bottoming and better brake control but very harsh).
So before going to the ZZR forums, does any of you have the info I am looking for?
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Just to add to the mix the visocusity of oil is not he same across brands. 7.5 in one brand may be thicker then 10 for another brand. It might be a good idea to stick with oine brand when making changes so that at least your sure your actually going thicker or thiner.
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?for...7043&topicPage=
Ok, I checked you link . WOW.
I admitt, is better than mine.
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Just to add to the mix the visocusity of oil is not he same across brands. 7.5 in one brand may be thicker then 10 for another brand. It might be a good idea to stick with oine brand when making changes so that at least your sure your actually going thicker or thiner.
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?for...7043&topicPage=
True, check the links I posted previously in the first page. :!:
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True, if you want to measure them you have to use wire gap gauge.
I think that they are oK straight out of the box.
paint code for black xx?
in The Garage
Posted
To make sure , take the seat out and check for a sticker on the rear right hand side of the subframe.