Hobicus Posted July 20 Posted July 20 Ok, I know a few of you are using Zepbound. I had a chat with my Dr. last week, and came to the conclusion that Zepbound would be a good option. Of course, it's not covered by my insurance, so I'm going to have to look at available out of pocket options. A few google searches, and that's a rabbit hole, so I thought I'd ping the collective. Who's got the best options out there for me? Thoughts? Opinions? Quote
DaveK Posted July 20 Posted July 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hobicus said: Ok, I know a few of you are using Zepbound. I had a chat with my Dr. last week, and came to the conclusion that Zepbound would be a good option. Of course, it's not covered by my insurance, so I'm going to have to look at available out of pocket options. A few google searches, and that's a rabbit hole, so I thought I'd ping the collective. Who's got the best options out there for me? Thoughts? Opinions? I insist on using the original formula FROM Lily Direct. Self inject....$449/month. 15mg's. Look for MFG coupons too. Been on since 2/2024 - lost 130 pounds. https://www.lilly.com/lillydirect?gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20796659989&gbraid=0AAAAAC9jCf4nu5ZF0g7NmAch2MBpfvAbk&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjvfSBhDpARIsAEiOpStBo_3TLijep1NhV-TqEoaA_ax14aaiU-lFfClNkWUy-8YMoLb-iEkaAl9rEALw_wcB Edited July 20 by DaveK 1 Quote
SwampNut Posted July 20 Posted July 20 3 hours ago, Hobicus said: Who's got the best options out there for me? Thoughts? Opinions? What does "best" mean? You have three compromises. This is not a good place for just opinions, only medical facts. I'll withhold those unless I specifically say so. Though obvious you can guess at some of my opinions by what I actually use. I'll be doing a group order with a trusted peptide vendor in the next couple days. Tirzepatide runs me around $200 for 340mg, which is ten vials of 34 each. You'd have to mix it with bacteriostatic water as you need them. This is easy and millions of people do it for both peptides and other drugs. As I've mentioned in other threads, I've been involved in many peptides for a bit over three years and have some great, tested sources. It's what I'm using. I was prescribed Mounjaro, saw the prices, and immediately set out to solve that problem. And did. This is how you mix: Your next option is one of the prescription compounding options online. They are mostly all about the same, just vastly more expensive. Each of the "providers" have their own plans and little nuances on how they charge you and add support. They arrive to you already mixed, and in some cases in a pen. Mostly though in a vial, you just draw with an insulin syringe and inject. This is how official Lilly product is sold in most of the world, but in the US we're too soft and stupid to do that apparently. And then your most overpriced option is the actual Lilly product. This is in a pen injector. Zero effort. Although, you generally will get better medical/advice support from compounding, or by using one of the online providers to get this instead of compounded. Most doctors have low knowledge on GLP-1s. I've taught medical professionals more about it than they have told me. My own PCP said so. All of these are 100% identical, period. There is no difference in the molecule, and there are no nuances between generic and branded being slightly different. It either is, or is not, exactly the right molecule. My sources are tested for exact contents and very importantly--actual dose volume. Many compounding pharmacies don't, and even Lilly is allowed to be 10% off. Testing for this batch if you want in on it: https://imgur.com/a/7DVp1gd Quote
DaveK Posted July 20 Posted July 20 13 minutes ago, SwampNut said: And then your most overpriced option is the actual Lilly product. This is in a pen injector. Zero effort. I get it in vials from Lilly to self inject with a syringe. Quote
SwampNut Posted July 20 Posted July 20 16 minutes ago, DaveK said: I get it in vials from Lilly to self inject with a syringe. Well then, that eliminates their only advantage. And that's really unusual in the US. You're in a special place with all your medical contacts though. Quote
SwampNut Posted July 20 Posted July 20 Oh hey, did you ever cut dose? If you're on vials, then you can just do it. When we talked I thought you were using the normal pens. Rich if you feel like a live chat on this I'm up for that. Quote
DaveK Posted July 20 Posted July 20 24 minutes ago, SwampNut said: Oh hey, did you ever cut dose? If you're on vials, then you can just do it. When we talked I thought you were using the normal pens. Rich if you feel like a live chat on this I'm up for that. I did.... SO hard to tell if it did anything... I think it takes a "short while" to take affect. Quote
SwampNut Posted July 20 Posted July 20 15 minutes ago, DaveK said: I did.... SO hard to tell if it did anything... I think it takes a "short while" to take affect. The half-life is 117.5 hours. This means it's around three weeks to ramp up or down and re-stabilize in a meaningful way. Psychological effects may last longer than biological effects. Quote
Joel Posted July 22 Posted July 22 On 7/20/2026 at 9:22 AM, DaveK said: I insist on using the original formula FROM Lily Direct. Self inject....$449/month. 15mg's. Look for MFG coupons too. Been on since 2/2024 - lost 130 pounds. https://www.lilly.com/lillydirect?gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20796659989&gbraid=0AAAAAC9jCf4nu5ZF0g7NmAch2MBpfvAbk&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjvfSBhDpARIsAEiOpStBo_3TLijep1NhV-TqEoaA_ax14aaiU-lFfClNkWUy-8YMoLb-iEkaAl9rEALw_wcB 130 pounds!? What was your starting weight? Do you have to continue take the meds the rest of your life in order to maintain the weight loss? My endocrinologist put me on zepbound today to treat various issues, including weight loss, but he really didn’t give me much info. Just gave me a 1 month supply, showed me how to do the injection and sent me on my way. Unlikely my insurance will cover it after the month is up Quote
RXX Posted July 22 Posted July 22 Rich, Lots of good stuff here. Before you purchase anything, consider this: Many insurance plans will not cover Zepbound (terzepitide) for weight loss only. Things change substantially when you throw OSA into the mix as your primary diagnosis. Drastically. ZB is the only drug approved right now for OSA and you are probably still a loud little fucker at night, right? Diagnosed and followed up? You should be golden. Talk to your doc, dig deep into your plan’s coverage. Maybe schedule a follow up with your OSA provider. Lilly Direct is a great option like DK said. But you should try to get coverage first. One other thing, do not start on anything more than 5 mg, it is a stepped regimen. I went from 230 to 148 in a little more than a year on 2.5 - 5 mg. Even though the indication was for OSA (I do not need a machine anymore either) If you do get vials, your doc can probably give you some strategies on how to stretch them, using simple math and faith that you do not get the leftovers in the vial contaminated. I do not believe a pharmacist is supposed to explain how to do this with sterile products but I know it is done. 1 Quote
DaveK Posted July 22 Posted July 22 3 hours ago, Fiona said: 130 pounds!? What was your starting weight? 317 3 hours ago, Fiona said: Do you have to continue take the meds the rest of your life in order to maintain the weight loss? Depends... can I keep my fat mouth from eating bad shit. I have proven for the last 55 years, I can't. Plus, there are a TON of other benefits other than simply weight loss. If I were to have to give you an answer, I'd say yes. 3 hours ago, Fiona said: My endocrinologist put me on zepbound today to treat various issues, including weight loss, but he really didn’t give me much info. Just gave me a 1 month supply, showed me how to do the injection and sent me on my way. Unlikely my insurance will cover it after the month is up I EASILY save the $450/month on food, restaurant, and alcohol bills. Not to mention the cost of the heart attack, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, gout, loss of sleep and misery. Quote
DaveK Posted July 22 Posted July 22 1 hour ago, RXX said: If you do get vials, your doc can probably give you some strategies on how to stretch them Easy....I do it. You can easily go an extra 2 to 4 days AFTER your next scheduled dose. I go anywhere from 2 to 3....for the first time last week I went 4 days (simply because I forgot to pack it when I went to the lake house) and I was fine. I did feel a little nauseous on day 2....but nothing to write home about. I have about 28 weeks of vials in the hopper because of this method I have been using the last 2 years. Quote
SwampNut Posted July 22 Posted July 22 8 hours ago, Fiona said: Do you have to continue take the meds the rest of your life in order to maintain the weight loss? Probably. In years of experience with this I've seen a few people just stop and not re-gain, and many go the other way. A lot of this is a long term metabolic disorder, and I'd say that the likelihood is you'd take it at a "maintenance" dose forever. Your words make it sound like you have a long term need. I will be on it forever for diabetes. No choice. I've actually had very little weight loss after starting it. 8 hours ago, Fiona said: but he really didn’t give me much info. Typical mainstream medicine, he probably doesn't actually know much. The user groups are generally more useful than doctors on the topic of GLP-1s and related peptides. 6 hours ago, RXX said: One other thing, do not start on anything more than 5 mg, it is a stepped regimen. I went from 230 to 148 in a little more than a year on 2.5 - 5 mg. Right, 2.5 for at least four weeks, then increase ONLY IF you are not seeing a result. Then if you are stuck with pens, do 5mg, but if you're on vials, just go to 4. Just this morning I got an email asking me about major side effects from a person who went from 2.5 to 5. There is absolutely no reason not to baby-step this and be safer, as Dave says. 6 hours ago, RXX said: I do not believe a pharmacist is supposed to explain how to do this with sterile products but I know it is done. My pharmacist gives people the link to my video on how to break open the pens and make new doses. And he's fine with dispensing the 15mg so people can make a month's worth from one pen (they cost the same-scam). 4 hours ago, DaveK said: Easy....I do it. You can easily go an extra 2 to 4 days AFTER your next scheduled dose. I go anywhere from 2 to 3....for the first time last week I went 4 days (simply because I forgot to pack it when I went to the lake house) and I was fine. I did feel a little nauseous on day 2....but nothing to write home about. I have about 28 weeks of vials in the hopper because of this method I have been using the last 2 years. Yeah, this, there's no reason not to go slower and use less. You can always add more. @Hobicus I have a pressing need (from other people) to finally get this group buy done, if you are interested, I need to know like now. Quote
Joel Posted July 23 Posted July 23 15 hours ago, DaveK said: 317 Depends... can I keep my fat mouth from eating bad shit. I have proven for the last 55 years, I can't. Plus, there are a TON of other benefits other than simply weight loss. If I were to have to give you an answer, I'd say yes. I EASILY save the $450/month on food, restaurant, and alcohol bills. Not to mention the cost of the heart attack, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, gout, loss of sleep and misery. Thanks for sharing Dave Quote
Joel Posted July 23 Posted July 23 10 hours ago, SwampNut said: Probably. In years of experience with this I've seen a few people just stop and not re-gain, and many go the other way. A lot of this is a long term metabolic disorder, and I'd say that the likelihood is you'd take it at a "maintenance" dose forever. Your words make it sound like you have a long term need. I will be on it forever for diabetes. No choice. I've actually had very little weight loss after starting it. Typical mainstream medicine, he probably doesn't actually know much. The user groups are generally more useful than doctors on the topic of GLP-1s and related peptides. Right, 2.5 for at least four weeks, then increase ONLY IF you are not seeing a result. Then if you are stuck with pens, do 5mg, but if you're on vials, just go to 4. Just this morning I got an email asking me about major side effects from a person who went from 2.5 to 5. There is absolutely no reason not to baby-step this and be safer, as Dave says. My pharmacist gives people the link to my video on how to break open the pens and make new doses. And he's fine with dispensing the 15mg so people can make a month's worth from one pen (they cost the same-scam). is that video on your YouTube? Quote
Joel Posted July 23 Posted July 23 13 hours ago, SwampNut said: @Hobicus I have a pressing need (from other people) to finally get this group buy done, if you are interested, I need to know like now. @SwampNutI’d like to get in on the group buy if there’s an opening. Quote
RXX Posted July 23 Posted July 23 15 hours ago, SwampNut said: My pharmacist gives people the link to my video on how to break open the pens and make new doses. And he's fine with dispensing the 15mg so people can make a month's worth from one pen (they cost the same-scam). I am not going to get into a pissing contest with your pharmacist, and you be you, but: Once any sterile product has been exposed to uncontrolled air it is compromised in a few ways. The first and most obvious is the loss of a sterile environment and probability (not possibility) of microbial contamination. ZB does not contain any preservatives or anti microbial agents. Since doses are not being prepared in anywhere near a controlled environment at best, in a regulatory sense (meaning an action could be taken on a license) this would be classified as an “immediate use” preparation and may only be used within 1 hour of first vial puncture. It really becomes more strict when an open container (like a broken-into pen) comes into the equation. The second is a more subtle chemical degradation due to oxidation. ZB contains buffers to minimize this, but it is for a sealed and controlled container. Once open to uncontrolled air all bets are off. And the longer the compromised product sits before use, the more profound the deleterious effects of the oxidation. And as you know, the process at the most benign results in a degraded product, at worst it could possibly present as a toxic agent: GLP-1 peptide drugs are vulnerable to degradation, leading to impurity formation that affects their safety, efficacy, and immunogenicity. Hydrolysis: Peptide bonds degrade in aqueous conditions, producing inactive fragments. Factors like pH, temperature, and ionic content influence hydrolysis rates. Oxidation: Residues such as tryptophan, tyrosine, and histidine are prone to oxidation, forming impurities that may elicit immune responses. Environmental factors like air, light, and pro-oxidant excipients exacerbate this process. Thermal Degradation: Heat accelerates hydrolysis and oxidation, leading to peptide aggregation and truncated sequences that undermine drug performance. Photodegradation: Exposure to light triggers structural damage to peptides. Proper storage minimizes this risk. Deamidation: Asparagine and glutamine residues undergo deamidation, creating acidic variants that alter stability and pharmacokinetics. (https://www.daicelpharmastandards.com/blog/degradation-pathways-and-impurity-formation-in-glp-1-therapeutics/) If your pharmacist gives his/her advice without also presenting these caveats, well, it is a job to them. All that being said, everything I stated above is true but realize that I did not present a “go/no go” and rather caution that it is a continuum. In my field we constantly perform QA (daily) on our sterile products for microbial contamination and chemical degradation. Both are a fact of life and we have failures, even in the extremely controlled environments we work in. You be you. I will ride my bike in the rain. I will ride my bike on the belts when I have to. I have ridden my bike inebriated. I have clicked on suspicious links. But I have always been aware of the possible consequences. Quote
DaveK Posted July 23 Posted July 23 2 hours ago, RXX said: I am not going to get into a pissing contest with your pharmacist, and you be you, but: Once any sterile product has been exposed to uncontrolled air it is compromised in a few ways. The first and most obvious is the loss of a sterile environment and probability (not possibility) of microbial contamination. ZB does not contain any preservatives or anti microbial agents. Since doses are not being prepared in anywhere near a controlled environment at best, in a regulatory sense (meaning an action could be taken on a license) this would be classified as an “immediate use” preparation and may only be used within 1 hour of first vial puncture. It really becomes more strict when an open container (like a broken-into pen) comes into the equation. The second is a more subtle chemical degradation due to oxidation. ZB contains buffers to minimize this, but it is for a sealed and controlled container. Once open to uncontrolled air all bets are off. And the longer the compromised product sits before use, the more profound the deleterious effects of the oxidation. And as you know, the process at the most benign results in a degraded product, at worst it could possibly present as a toxic agent: GLP-1 peptide drugs are vulnerable to degradation, leading to impurity formation that affects their safety, efficacy, and immunogenicity. Hydrolysis: Peptide bonds degrade in aqueous conditions, producing inactive fragments. Factors like pH, temperature, and ionic content influence hydrolysis rates. Oxidation: Residues such as tryptophan, tyrosine, and histidine are prone to oxidation, forming impurities that may elicit immune responses. Environmental factors like air, light, and pro-oxidant excipients exacerbate this process. Thermal Degradation: Heat accelerates hydrolysis and oxidation, leading to peptide aggregation and truncated sequences that undermine drug performance. Photodegradation: Exposure to light triggers structural damage to peptides. Proper storage minimizes this risk. Deamidation: Asparagine and glutamine residues undergo deamidation, creating acidic variants that alter stability and pharmacokinetics. (https://www.daicelpharmastandards.com/blog/degradation-pathways-and-impurity-formation-in-glp-1-therapeutics/) If your pharmacist gives his/her advice without also presenting these caveats, well, it is a job to them. All that being said, everything I stated above is true but realize that I did not present a “go/no go” and rather caution that it is a continuum. In my field we constantly perform QA (daily) on our sterile products for microbial contamination and chemical degradation. Both are a fact of life and we have failures, even in the extremely controlled environments we work in. You be you. I will ride my bike in the rain. I will ride my bike on the belts when I have to. I have ridden my bike inebriated. I have clicked on suspicious links. But I have always been aware of the possible consequences. So many things can go wrong.... too many to list. If it's a matter of life or death to save the money, I guess you'll either die from making your own meds or being sick so take your pick. But saving the money when you have the money and putting yourself at this risk is just dumb. JMHO 1 Quote
SwampNut Posted July 23 Posted July 23 7 hours ago, RXX said: ZB does not contain any preservatives or anti microbial agents. For that reason, in my video I tell people to add bacteriostatic water. This also helps with re-dosing since a 15mg pen only has 50u of liquid. One of the testing labs we "all" use took a vial from a dissected pen, LET IT SIT AT ROOM TEMP, and then tested it three months later. It was within the margin of error when tested for actual peptide content and purity. Over the last few years many rounds of testing have shown that peptides are far less fragile than previously though, bac water lasts "forever" not 30 days once punctured, etc. We were all being ultra paranoid about it all, but facts are facts. 13 hours ago, Fiona said: is that video on your YouTube? These are most of my peptide videos: Yes, on the group buy. 5 hours ago, DaveK said: So many things can go wrong Not if you do it right. 5 hours ago, DaveK said: But saving the money when you have the money and putting yourself at this risk is just dumb. My video was made for the people who don't have the money, and for whatever reason, don't want to buy the vials of third party peptide. I agree that the smartest option is just to go that way. I did it originally because I was asked to, and given pens. I wouldn't pay for them since there are better options. You have unique access to things that most people don't, and a lot of money to throw at problems, most people don't. 1 Quote
SwampNut Posted July 23 Posted July 23 That same lab did tests that proved a lot of previous fears were wrong: Lyophilized vials left in a garage in Texas for over three years: No damage, about 98% peptide survival, zero issues. Reconstituted vials at room temp for 1/3/6 months: Same as above. Bac water several years beyond date, unpunctured: Zero change. Bac water several years beyond date, punctured, 1/3/6 months: Zero change. Unused pens around a year beyond date: Within margin of error, no bacteria, no issues. Multi-use pens partially used and left out for months: Also fine. They DID prove that liquid peptides which sat at higher temps for a day were damaged. Quote
SwampNut Posted July 23 Posted July 23 Oh, other testing that was interesting... Most people recommend using only Hospira/Pfizer bacteriostatic water, because so many others have tested poorly. Moriah has a NIST certified pH meter, and a basic but decent microscope. She tested some Chinese bac water at well over 9 pH, which is ridiculous. As Phillip said above, that is a problem for peptides. She also was able to spot foreign detritus in both water and in a very shittily made vial. The labs have done the same and found all sorts of fuckery in the water. In a bid to stop us from doing this safely, the feds have been cracking down on requiring a prescription for the water. I shit you not. Eli Lilly owns the FDA. Of course all it did was raise the price by many times, and drive the purchasing farther underground. This vial was given to me for testing. It was made by skinheads in a trailer park, and sold as "safe." I again, shit you not, which is why sourcing and testing is critical. Quote
SwampNut Posted July 25 Posted July 25 On 7/23/2026 at 1:20 AM, RXX said: I am not going to get into a pissing contest with your pharmacist, and you be you, but: You are going to SHIT YOURSELF with this one, I think... I recently had to get a new PCP (thanks Obama). I told him everything I was using. When he heard "tirzepatide" he keyed in that I didn't say Mounjaro, so was I getting it compounded? Nope, I said that I send some bitcoin to a factory in China and they ship me lyophilized vials. Get this, he didn't know what "lyophilized" means, had never heard that, nor really anything about bacteriostatic water and reconstitution. I guess that's nurse work? Anyway, this resulted in me being in his office for nearly an hour, as he was both fascinated by it all, and wanted to know more so he can help patients who can't afford either name brand or even compounded (which is still fucking overpriced, and sometimes, not proper quality). He wrote down all my info to give to patients, watched some of my videos, etc. Well this morning I got my second email from someone who he referred to me to tell them how to do this inexpensively. When I asked him about the legal matter of all this and/or how his company may have policies against it, he simply said he became a doctor to help people, and he isn't going to let any of that stop him. I've already helped one of his nurses get started, and she's also telling other patients. Also I was wearing this shirt, and he commented that it told him I am probably not completely retarded. Quote
satchmo Posted July 25 Posted July 25 3 hours ago, SwampNut said: ... Get this, he didn't know what "lyophilized" means, had never heard that, nor really anything about bacteriostatic water and reconstitution. I guess that's nurse work? ... Yup, definitely nurse's work. Tons of meds come in a powdery form and have to be reconstituted with specific solvents (NS, SW, D5, etc). (The most time-consuming that I have come across in the ED is K-Centra. Damn, it takes fooooorever and actually is administered faster than it takes to mix. Though, Zosyn is right up there sometimes....) My two cents as a nurse... Quote
SwampNut Posted July 25 Posted July 25 I was blown away when he asked me to explain those words and what you have to do. I blinked a few times thinking he was fucking with me, or testing me. Quote
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