Did anyone ever get around to making a custom thingamabobber to allow you to use the standard top steering stem bearing? Cuz I have the forks and triples from a brand new zero-km '14 on the way and I could surely use one

Stan (cbrxxquad) is working on it. I'm sure he'll be by sooner or later, or you could drop him a PM.

I have everything I need to figure it out, but, the thickness of the zx bearing and race.

And Alan is looking for his....spare one.

So if you have yours and can give me the number, I can finish the drawing and make it and put it on and prove it.

If you have the number on the bearing also. I hate to have to buy another one from All balls, just to get the number off to order a real set.

All my books fail to show the size that it is. I guess I could call a supplier.

Everything I have seen and measured says it will fit.

OK?

When my parts come in I'll do my best to get you the information you need -- it'll probably be a week or so until they arrive.

Shit! I totally forgot about that. I'll keep looking. It's there. Somewhere.

Click to view attachment

Finally got my parts . . . took a bit longer than it should have thanks to my rural mailbox having an unscheduled encounter with a baseball bat. Yes, that shit actually happens. Anyway, here's a pic with the only numbers I could find. I freely admit that my knowledge of bearings is somewhere between jack and shit, so if this isn't what you need let me know. Preferably using a picture, with the relevant parts circled in red

I have a digital caliper and an outside micrometer if that helps. If you can get me pointed at the right gizmo, I can take physical measurements of it.

Well the number should cross to a taper roller bearing from your ball bearing. The number I need would require the outside race that is missing from the picture. And the number I am looking for would be from the table to the top with the race installed around the outside. Yes it would help to have the thickness of your ball bearing setup. Is it a stock set?

The parts are stock, from an '08. I don't have the outside race . . . I'm guessing it's still in the frame of the bike my forks came from? Hmmm, I just looked at a few random front ends on ebay and none of them come with the outer races, I guess this is the norm. Which is nice to know, but not too helpful right now

Ok, so would an aftermarket tapered bearing kit have the parts you need? Because if that were the case I could paypal you the cost of the kit, you could order it and have your way with it, then forward it to me when you're done. Given a choice, I'd rather buy a plug-n-play ZXXX conversion kit set up for the tapered bearings anyway.

scored the bearing sizes and price. 55x35x14 $55.00
The stock bearing is 14.5 wide, so a little there.From what I remember without getting the drawings should fit, and work, but lets wait till I make one. And test it..
Thanks, the number got what we needed.

Has anyone done a write up on this mod? Seems that if you can get the parts @ the right price, it would make more sense than spending $ to rework the BB forks.

So, if you did this, what steps were needed? Are you happy w/ the result?

Much appreceated.

Yes, search for zxxx. That is my alter ego, two wheel personality. My log on too. Have not used it in a while.

Gracias, Hombre.

Looks like I'm going to have to keep my eyes open for a ZX14 front end.

I'm not sure why I didn't think of this sooner, and it's too late to be useful at this point, but I'm pretty sure I remember the ZX14 neck bearings being the same as the bottom XX neck bearing.

The od is, but the id is different,,,,,I think.

I actually think they're the same, but it's been some time since I had both apart to measure.

Le Bump . . . how's it going Stan? I am eager to send you actual cash money or its electronic equivalent in exchange for a small but critical chunk of shiny metal

I am in the middle of a No2 R1 build that I have to get done,, and soon. I fear that this month ain't gonna happen. What with the trip to Rednexxt burning a week of it. But next month, so gonna happen.

Don't let up. I will. I am sure that it is a good part now. All the dimn's are good.

Sounds good, I'll resume bugging you around the end of the month

Woohoo! I need that bearing cup! Badly! I already notched my steering head bearings, and I don't want to pull that all apart more than once!

It's a month later, so here's your regularly scheduled nagging

Front tire's getting awfully cupped, it would be cruel and unusual punishment to make me install a new one on that antique rightside-up-forked non-radial-braked secondary-master-cylinder-shenanigan Honda front end when all my shiny brand new parts are gathering dust

Keep it up. I have got the week trip to Rednexxt done, and Ozarxx is next week. And Roxx next month for a week. And then no more excuse.

Would going with a 14 front end be better than going with a busa front? Is one better built, easier to install, cheaper etc?

There probably isn't a huge difference between ZX-14 and newer Busa setups. The old Busa doesn't have radial brakes, which you may or may not care about. I went with the ZX because:

1. There's a shop in Canada that parts out brand new zero mileage ZXs, so I could get guaranteed good parts without getting assraped with international shipping

2. While good ZX-14 calipers are still relatively rare and expensive, many others will fit with the use of a simple spacer (or even a stack of washers for the ghetto-inclined). The same may be true for newer Busa brakes, I haven't looked into it. I went with CBR1000RR hardware because they're a lot more common; I got the calipers, master cylinder, and brake lines (which I'm assuming will be too short, but oh well) for just over half the price of a decent set of oem ZX-14 calipers. The money saved will go toward upgraded lines for now, and maybe a down payment on some Brembos or equivalent bling later.

3. We have someone on the forum who's done the swap and can machine the necessary adapter . . . though I may end up reading Dave Gingery's Build Your Own Metalworking Shop From Scrap, building a milling machine, learn how to use it by trial and error, and complete the project on my own before he has time to do it

4. Despite it's Ferrari-Testarossa-wannabe side panels, the ZX-14 has never managed to acquire the gay squidly stigma of the Busa.

The only thing needed to do either is the top bearing, and I have used a pair of special small ball, ball bearing. And they are high priced at a 100 each. The adapter I hope to Lathe will use the standard zx taper.
The top bearing does not take the load from bumps so is fine but, will not take the torque from tightening the top nut to much, hence two. But, the cost of the adapter will run about the same price, so it is a cost wash.


And what he said...

Bump again. Front tire disintegrating, grisly death imminent. New forks probably rusting in box. Even the dog looks sad. Please can I has adapter?

Ok I have a trip starting the end of next week for a week on the bike and then I can tear it down and make a few. Need to order a set of bearings too.

wait wait wait?? what??

Here's another question: what's the difference between the $120 bearing linked in Skull's post here and a regular 35x47x7 sealed ball bearing that costs $5-$10?

I've talked to a "bearing guy" and he assures me there is nothing special about the MRC bearing except the price . . . and that is "special" in a Special Olympics kind of way. So I will be going with the bearings instead of the adapter, since the bearing option now costs 1/10th what I thought it would, and I won't have to keep waiting.

"WOW"

You were third in line anyway.

the one you have to have does not exist in a taper bearing. The one listed is a small crossection ball bearing to fit the large zx stem and the small xx neck.
But your bearing guy does he have a manufacturer name and number and cost for others to get theirs?

VXB Bearings

Here's one source. Putting the bearing size into google will find many others, including a few dozen on ebay. According to the guy I talked to, 80% of the world's bearing steel comes from one manufacturer and most bearings of the same size and type are identical, depending on manufacturer tolerances. He said that if the last 3 digits in the bearing number are the same (807 in this case) and the dimensions are the same, it's pretty much the same bearing. The MRC bearing might very well be a bit higher in quality but in this situation where it will see little load and no rpms at all, it makes no difference.

Also, take a look at the bottom of the VXB page for some exotic bearings in the same size -- their ABEC-7 ceramic bearings are still cheaper than the plain steel MRC. No point in putting something like that in a steering stem but maybe some benefits for wheel bearings, lower rolling resistance and teeny little reduction in unsprung weight

looks good, now to go kick my bearing supplier in the nuts

Catalog prices can be pretty insane when the industry isn't feeling a lot of competition from the internet. Even with the discounts we get at work for wholesale and high volume, some of the prices we pay for stuff make me ill. If only the purchaser was ambitious enough to actually hunt for good values instead of settling for the convenience of getting as much stuff through as few suppliers as possible . . .

Anyway, one of the ebay vendors for this particular bearing is called punchbuggy -- seems like we share a part with the old vee-dub :) So there's one thing that'll always be in stock somewhere

The bearing plot thickens . . . here's some more input on that 6807 bearing:



So, Stan (or whoever has his ZXXX now) and Skull: I'm guessing you haven't noticed any serious deterioration in the bearings. Can you give me a rough idea of the mileage you've put on since the swap?

The bottom taper bearing takes all the loads which are all vert. and the top only needs to center horz loads, and the stem bearings have 13,000 miles on them. I only load the top bearings with the stem nut enough to take all the clearance out so they are not, with two of them, side loaded to the point of damage.
Now, Skull's has some problems, and you need to take that into consideration. And you need to be aware this is not the manufactured approved modification. And your taking you life into your hands with nobody to blame but your self for doing something. Especially me.
And I think it is great that somebody it being critical of the way I had to do this. And looking and the real information and not just the experimentation of a back yard hack, on the internet. You should do your homework.
The reason I want to build a bearing cup to hold the other ZX tapered bearing in the xx frame is to eliminate this exact variation in usage of the ball bearings.

Thanks for the post.

And I just got back from a 2400 mile 8 day ride in the twisties of Colorado, and hard bumps of post winter roads, without a single problem in that department, making 6k this summer back on the bike. Drug my toes in the corners, but no peg feelers, so very exciting for me.

Keep it up guys, your doing it all right.

I love the front on this bike, and the long arm of the zx, but you more than likely won't like the rear that way. But, fitting the 6 inch wide zx wheel to the rear arm of the xx is the right way to put the 190 on the bird, and still have the handling you like.

The biggest problems I've had with those bearings is that, due to exactly the reasons your friend stated, it's difficult (at least for me) to determine how tight I should torque the steering head. As Stan mentioned, I have had some trouble with the front end bearings, but it was the tapered bottom bearing which has already notched. I attribute this to having used one from All-Balls, rather than a better quality thrust bearing. Due to a great many factors, most of them medical, Stan has actually put more miles on my bike than I have, and it's not enough to give you any meaningful data.

I view my bike as a science project, at this point, and I deliberately do not expect anything other than for it to be temperamental. Stan has had good success with it, so I may come to view it in that light, eventually, as well, but my bike has other issues anyway.

Thanks for the input guys. For now I'll be using the stock ZX bottom bearing -- my front end is brand new so any abnormal wear pattern should be obvious. I start my holidays July 13 so that's when I'll be starting this mod, unless I get one of my other bikes on the road first. For now the XX is my only ride to work except for my 1975 F100, but the way it goes through gas I might as well just stay home rather than using it as a commuter.

I'm sure I'll have a million questions once I start, but one thing that occurs to me now -- do you need to use a seal at the top, when the bearings are already sealed? I'm guessing there's no stock seal that fits.

No need for another seal

Okay, finally got started on this several weeks behind schedule (fuck you very much Canada Post). Lots of fun with corroded parts that haven't been touched in 13 years; I'm doing the exhaust as well and 3 header studs came out with the nuts (no big deal) and one nut came off fine but brought the threads from the stud along for the ride (d'oh!) Thank goodness for Honda's passion for re-using the same part as much as possible, the studs are common to so many bikes that I may actually be able to get one locally.

Anyway, a few weeks ago I shimmed the new 50mm Danmoto clipons and put them on the XX forks to test fit them and new brake hardware. I had the front wheel off the ground and must've turned the bars lock to lock a hundred times. The head bearings felt fine. Well, last night I stripped it down to the bare triples and without the weight of the forks and wheel there's a very pronounced center detent -- it feels spring-loaded the way it snaps to center. I haven't taken the stem out yet (daytime is for yard work, night is for projects, sleep is optional) but I'm sure I'll need a new lower race. The ZX lower bearing and the race on the bottom of the stem are brand new I don't need the upper races so I find myself in need of one freakin outer race for the lower bearing.

This seems like a good opportunity to upgrade the bottom to tapered roller but I'd like to avoid the All Balls kit; too many negative reports plus that would leave me with a top bearing I don't need. As far as I can tell the correct tapered roller replacement for the bottom bearing is a 32006 (55x30x17). Before I order one can anyone confirm that?

I guess I'll have plenty of time to get the stripped stud out while I wait for a new bearing to arrive. Good thing I anticipated this project stretching out and planned ahead -- last week I bought this so I'd have something to ride while the XX was down:

I think that is right,,bearing size, and if you do get the All balls dual, I could use another for a project.

I found a Japanese made Koyo Seiko sealed tapered roller for $25 shipped, think I'll go with that. Most of the others I found seem to be made in China or <shudder> India.

Very nice ride! Give us the details and what year is it?

1986 VFR750F, 112,000 km. Gear driven cams, fairings beat up but mostly intact, bald tires, wouldn't idle. K&N filter completely clogged with mouse turds, fur, and seed husks. Cleaning it fixed the idle I just ordered new tires in the stock 16" front/18" rear sizes -- bias ply BT45s as AFAIK there are no radials that fit. I'm already researching suspension swaps to fit modern 17" rims but since I bought this specifically to ride as is and not make a project out of, I'm hoping that having a new set of rubber to use up will help me restrain myself for a while.

The speedo is way out to lunch, reading over 20% high. The front tire is one size wider than stock, which makes it too wide for the wheel and messes up the profile. I really hope that putting the proper size tire back on helps because it's driving me nuts. Having a speedohealer on the Bird has spoiled me. But the Viffer has sufficient grunt, sounds great, and overall feels more like a supercharged Ninja 250 than a big bike. Nimble to the point of feeling weightless compared to the XX, although I'm sure the new head bearings (and the rest of the new front end) plus putting a 180 rear back on after I finish killing the present 190 will liven the old bird up considerably. Getting rid of about 30 lbs of stock mufflers, centerstand and linked brake crap can't hurt either.

Send me a link, never seen a sealed taper bearing.

32006 JRRS Sealed Tapered Roller Bearing

Pic is generic, but you get the idea.

??
Yeah, so what country are you in???

gotta find some closer. Cool though. Learn something everyday from you.

Na, just ordered from them, guess we will see.

That's not actually the place I ordered from, they just had a better pic Price looks about the same though. Funny how all the shops with quality Japanese bike bearings seem to be in the UK. I'm not complaining (at least not while the exchange rate is decent); for some reason Royal Mail service to Canada is a lot faster than getting mail from the US, and if the seller charges actual shipping (ie, isn't an asshole) it's pretty cheap too.