FIXED>>> IT WAS THE COMPUTER/ECM


I was feeling pretty good doing this little fix. I just got the orange/red wires together, greens, then the other greens. All turn signals and everything working normal...sweet.
I did blow a fuse when one of the reds touched one of the greens on the wire loom, but replaced and everything seemed normal.

Now the bike will crank and everything appears normal, except the fuel pump is not coming on. The kill switch is switching the relay because i can hear the 'click' of the relay. Checking the kickstand switch now, but it was never a problem before.

All normal fuses and possible loose connections have been checked.

Any thoughts?

Come on experts,,,i know you're out there!!! I want to ride,,,its super nice out!!!

have you check all your fuses? You do know two are not in the box? the one under the red cover on the starter solenoid, and the other one in the separate fuse to the solenoid.

Every time I have seen this it was the ground wire, on the rear shock mount at the frame.

Yes, I just double checked the two 30amp fuses. The one under the red cover and the one in the clear case next to the main fuse box.

I just checked the ground near the shock mount. I tested each of the four wires going in and all have continuity to the frame.

I'm thinking i screwed something up when the fuse blew, is there another fuse anywhere? Could I have fried a relay?

yep,
continuity is not good enough, the ground has to be able to carry the load.

I tested the angle bank sensor, stop relay and fuel cutoff relay. All seem to be working when you energize them off the bike and test for continuity.

Is there a way I can test the relays? Are they interchangeable? Are these pretty standard relays i can go buy at an auto parts store?
Thanks for the help! :) :)

I think so, interchangable (edit) and common.
there is something about this that is in the back of my head, can't really remember, something,,,,hummm,

When you cycle the switch on the bars, does the relay click?

Can you hear anything in the tank when you do?

Thanks for the quick responses!!! :)

Tried switching all of the relays back and forth. Nothing changes.

Yes, the relay clicks with the ignition on, when you cycle the kill switch. Seems normal.

I'm glad you mentioned hear anything in the tank. I get a click,,sound just like another relay under the tank is coming on, but still does not cycle the fuel pump.

Thoughts? I haven't taken the tank off yet.

That is next, check the power to the pump wire. If it is hot, ya know.

Hot wire to the fuel pump is dead. Ground is good.

Jumped from the battery to the fuel pump and it ran fine, continously of course, not the normal 2 second cycle and shut off.

Also, if i short the fuel cutoff relay the pump cycles, telling me the wiring to the pump is A-ok.

I'm a little puzzled what failed. Whats my next move? Replace relays? Swapping them around didn't do any good.

The shop manual outlines the following for no voltage at the fuel pump.
-fuses 10A, 20A and 30A (checked)
-Engine stop switch (activates relay,,,checked)
-Relays checked by swapping around 1-3 with each other,,same results
-ECM - not checked.

You know the fuel pump is good, so start tracing backward.

The fuel regulator is not an electromechanical device. So what tells the fuel pump to cycle on any off? Does it have its own internal pressure regulator?

Shorting the "self-diagnosis connector" provides no blinks.

Is it logical to assume i screwed up the ECU? Does any have one i could borrow/rent/steal? :) I'd have no problem paying for it. :)

I am not sure but figure there is a test in the manual for the fuel system side of the ecu.
One thing I did was to replace my 2000 wiring and ecu with a 2002 from ebay to get rid of the problems and that I had replaced the gauges with digital.

The ecu is not cheap. One thing I would check is the connector to and from the ecu, visually.

I am guessing, but pretty sure it is the ecu.

Thanks for your help...if anyone else has any other suggestions please let me know

I did check the connections to the ecu. They look perfect. If something it it did get fried, its not obvious visually.

have you looked in the ecu diagnosing section?

Yeah,, it all involves a test pin box. Don't have one of those handy.

Could be i'm looking in the wrong place. I didn't really find a diagnosing section on the ecm alone. I have all 560 pages on pdf, could you recommend a place to look?

If you know the pump is good, and you can hear the relay switch when you turn the key, why are you looking at the ECM? Trace backward from the pump until you find the break in the circuit.

If i short the relay, the pump works. (as mentioned above) Proving its not the wiring from the relay to the pump. Relay is getting voltage...seems pump isn't getting the signal when to turn on/off. That comes from ECU...correct?

If i swap the relay, nothing changes...still the same issue. So not believed to be relay either.

Short it how? Getting what voltage? A relay has two inputs: the input that activates the switch, and the input that is carried through the switch.


Uh. The ECM controls the switch on the relay. That's how it 'signals' the pump.

I am thinking the ground is how it is controled, which brings me back to the wireloom fix, and the grouping that you tie together. Might be something to that. Might find the ground wire from the fuel pump, and add another to ground. Then test for running.

The load on the ground would be something the ecm could control without much draw. Low voltage stuff.

There is a purpose to the groups that are all ground. You cant just connect all the grounds together. I forget but there are about three different groups of grounds.

I shorted the relay from the brown to the black/white, as the manual dictates, to test the fuel pump. The actual test i was doing in the manual was to test the volume of the fuel coming out of the fuel pump...either way it was to actuate it, and it worked.
The voltage at one wire on the relay was battery voltage, as it should be. I'm not sure if there was voltage on the other wire,,but i'll check after work today.

Thanks! :)



I'm thinking I did it correctly. I followed the directions to a tee! I also looked at the bridges on the stock connector to see what was connected to what on the factory test connector.

4 groups of wires,,,and it is easy to tell what wires go with what.
Group 1: All the grounds/greens on one side of the connector go together.
Group 2: There are 3 more grounds/greens that are together.
Group 3: 3 whites, batt voltage
Group 4: 2 orange striped

I took a good look at the tutorial, and unless I screwed up a ground wire I did it correctly. I could always unsolder everything. Not sure how i would really verify everything is in the right place, since some wires are identical!
I was pretty methodical about doing them in groups. Cut the group, then solder, then move on to the next group.

Stolen from another tutorial.

ok, I am just throwing ideas now, what ever hits me when I read this, to try and help.

There is two of those connectors in the loom. Did you do both?

One is up by the valve cover.

The other set of control-wires to the relay should be from the ecm.

Now I am gonna show my ignorance, I don't think the fuel cycles on and off other than when it first turns off before you start. I don't think there is a way for it to know anything about the pressures electrally. It is a timer when the switch is first turned. But, that is my opinion. This from running open ended fuel line.

Make sure you clean and check the ground wire for tight and corrosion. I have had this happen with the ground not tight enough, but touching.
Also, the wire connectors in the boot at the engine. Had this same thing happen when they were not connected,,,,well. check all of them are clean and snaped together correctly.

both are responsbile for this happening to me.

Wire loom up by valve cover? Seriously? I never even heard of that one. Do other people do that at the same time as the subframe wire loom? Should they be done at the same time?
If nothing else, i'll find that loom and verify i did the subframe loom correctly. It's the same group of wires right?

See, i'm thinking its not a connector issue because i didn't move anything. I didn't do a tear down and then put everything back together. If I had, i would be frantic about connectors.... I'll still check them tonight.

I did, and it was as bad, but it needs to be checked for corrosion. Same kind of deal.

but you did pull on the wireloom and if it was not snaped together good it could have pulled far enough apart to stop it from making contact.
It did on mine, would die while running. and then start again. If it would not I could reach in and when I touched the idle adjuster it would magically start and run for hundreds of miles with no problem. And then die again weeks later. Did it to me year before last in Ozarxx and had to find it in the parking lot.

Just measured.
Both the engine stop relay, and the fuel cutoff relay are hot (12V) in 3 positions. I'm going to replace both the engine stop relay and the fuel relay just so i know for sure, they are good. I'd hate to do more work then I need to. Since the relays ARE getting juice, i believe that tells me my ECU is ok?

Where does that leave me? I swapped it with both of the others,,could it be they are blown to?

Could someone do me this favor. When the pump first cycles and , does the second from the left fuel injector click?
Right now, when the stop engine relay activates with the kill switch, i'm getting a single click under the tank...hunted it down and it is the second from the left (when sitting on bike) fuel injector.

Checked all connectors that are anywhere near the loom. Also rechecked ground and the 3-4 sealed connectors that are bundled under the tank. Nothing out of place.

Did not find the other connector that cbrxx was talking about. Do you mean the green connector on the left side of the bike that is all taped up? This one was about 4 inches south of the left coil pack.

Could someone check this for me, to make sure i'm not going insane.

In the large cluster of about 10 green wires. Do some have voltage? Most are grounds but i know i have at least on that signals the fuel injector to cycle.

[[/quote]


I did, and it was as bad, but it needs to be checked for corrosion. Same kind of deal.



Do you have a power commander ? If so unplug it and try it without. i had a problem like this, and it ended up being a ground wire loose and mismatched on the pc3

Yes, take the tape off and take apart and check for corrosion.

And like I was trying to say I think the ecm controls the ground, but have not checked the wiring.

I'll check it.

Any chance you can stick a voltmeter into the big cluster of 10 grounds and see if there is voltage....with the ignition and kill switch in the run position?

what I was hoping you would do is supply a ground to the ground wire at the relay.Just in case the ecm has failed. the deal is the ground wire would see low volts after the load and would be subject to failure when you put high volts to it when you killed the fuse.

FIXED!!!!!

My hunch, supported by cbrxx's help, proved true. The ECM was at fault. I was able to get one off (the other site) for pennies on the dollar from someone parting out a bike.

I have 3 used/new relays that all work too!!!

Thanks for all the help guys!!

When i have a rainy afternoon, i'm going to cut open the potted ECM that failed and see what component fried. Its probally some $.01 component.

Heres the lesson I learned.

If you do electrical work,,, cut the friggen power off first.

A very good thread to read ,, glad it was here to read ,, helped me out a bit ,, thanks all.