Mick had posted some pics of his metalworking tools and some nice shots of his work. I've had access to a few such tools in the distant past, but never really learned how to use all of them. I don't even really understand the details of lathing vs. milling, though I have the very basic concepts. I looked at both yesterday (BIG CASH) and see a mill looks like a drill press with a complex and accurate sliding table arrangement. The lathe of course holds a bar and cutters engage it. Now...what do you do with each...

Mick, if you've got some time, how about talking about some metal basics. For example, basic tools (you mentioned some in the other thread), and things you can make with them. Also what quality/feature levels are really necessary? Saw combo drill/mill machines for $250-600, and dedicated mills for $300-1000. Lathes from $200-1000.

Also, any reason these can't also work with wood? IE, you buy a metal lathe, can it be used with wood?

Carlos,

Are you refering to this http://www.usedmachinerysales.com/picture/1728.html

vs

this

http://www.usedmachinerysales.com/picture/1772.html

I did a year of metal shop (18 years ago - fuck I am getting old). Just trying to make sure about the terms.

Hugo

That's for pussies.



LOL

Hugo

Nice stuff.

"S & M Machinery Sales"

Hmm. Didn't know they made machines for that, I just go to Mistress Helga.

I overlooked the S&M part, I am getting old.

Hugo

Anyway, I used to work on steel mostly and it differed from what - I know of - woodwork in the following areas:

Cutting tools linear speed (and progression) and positioning are critical (you basically have to use diagrams - until experience kicks in, I guess - that will establish the tools speed for a given tool/cut material).

Metrology and knowledge of manufacturing/size standards are paramount (otherwise you'll be stranded with shit that no bearing will fit, adjustments that do not match the final use etc.). I wish I had the references to that in English but I don't.

There is one thing I liked about it: shaving several milimeters of steel at a time (grunt). AWESOME POWER.

Hugo

I suppose the two most useful tools are the milling machine and the centre lathe. With a lathe the work rotates and the tool is brought to bear on it with a milling machine the tool rotates and the work brought to bear on it.
As stated the mill is basically a precision bench drill so can be used just as a drill if need be but with the precision cross vise base table and the various cutters it can shape metal. Its best looked on as the metal equivalent of a wood router. You can get all types and shapes of cutter same as a router you're not limited to mounting the workpiece in a vise on the table you can use T bolts in the table slots to secure near enough anything you want.
Everyone's seen a centre lathe it usually comes with a self centering 3 jaw chuck but you really need an independent 4 jaw chuck and a face plate as well to use its full potential so you are then not just limited to using round or hex bar.
You can just work by trial and error from scratch with either machine but you're bound to make a lot of mistakes. Different metals need different cutting speeds different tool angles etc. I hadn't used a lathe for 30 years since school and college when I bought mine last year but soon got back into the swing making bits for the bike, just cosmetic, nothing load bearing, wouldn't like to replace anything that is critical with my limited knowledge. One piece of aluminium alloy looks the same as another but the specs can be totally different so you've got to know exactly what you're using and doing.
There are quite few books out there on metal turning and milling and reading one will give you enough knowledge to make a start, you pick up more as you go along as to what works and what doesn't as long as you've got the basics to start with.
Lathes are classified by their centre height - (distance from the machine bed to centre of the chuck which x2 gives you the maximum diameter you can work with) and useable length of bed which gives you the max length of your workpiece. Mines only 4.5"(9" workable) x 12" a budget model but its been OK for everything I've wanted to do up to now and you're not limited to just metal, if you want to you can use it for plastic, wood etc which I've done on many occassions making patterns and suchlike to save wasting metal.

If you did want to get into metalwork you might consider the growing number of combined lathe/millers, the two combined into one machine is very versatile .



The possibilities are endless as to what you can actually make or do with them the only limiting factor is your imagination, if you so desired you could even make copies of the machines themselves, self perpetuating so to speak. I've just been making bike bits but I've got a few other ideas on the go as well such as a fairly large scale bike model and suchlike and done the odd mod for things in the house.

Sorry but I've got no idea as to US prices or what's available there.

edit- sorry missed this link - saw the big muthas but not this one of Joe's




http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Disp...temnumber=39743

://http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...=39743

It's a small machine but reasonably priced maybe an ideal starting point for experimenting to see if you can/want to get into it before moving up to something bigger and more expensive.

Personnaly those little machines you guys have posted scare the shi- out of me.... everything you cut you're going to have to over compensate for the power lose with speed (rpms) and that gets scarey.

Plus I have been talking with Zen alot on this very topic and yes there is alot of good used equipment out there for the seriously inklined.

I plan on buying my own Mill, probably will take me about 3 years to save up for. I figure I canget a good one that will do everything for around 3K. ( here some food for thought.... some aluminium bits need to spin around the 4000 rpm range. :shock: )

Oh, don't forget a good band saw is a must uf your thinking about aluminium.

Good luck, and happy hunting!

As Joe says not everyone has the space or money for the big industrial stuff, nice though it is you don't have to go big if its one off personal stuff you are doing. Don't have to go to ridiculously high rpm either to compensate for lower power you adjust it by taking smaller cuts, may take a bit longer but you're not an assembly line and still get there. We're not talking commercial here just DIY and people who think they might want to have a go starting from scratch.

I know!


My wife and all of my friends joke about me being a" Tim the toolman ", everything I own is or was the most powerfull model when I purchased it, and if that wasn't bad enough, I have modified the lawnmower and the vacume cleaner and a few other things around the house as well.

I do think this is probably a great unit for the average home owner...


I plan on turning a little money after I get my machine, that's why I'm thinking big! Or at least that's what I'm telling the wife. :roll: :lol: No really I am.

From looking at the picture of that combined mill/lathe, my biggest concern would be that the milling capability wouldn't be there. In addition to having a table that can precisely move the workpiece in 3 axes, another big thing that separates a mill from a drill press is its ability to handle the sideloads that the spindle experiences when milling the edge of a piece of metal. If you try doing it on a drillpress (which is what the thing in the picture of the combo looks like) you'll quickly destroy the spindle bearings.

Someday when I've got a house and a shop I would love to own one of those though. I worked my way through school in a prototype shop, and not having access to it anymore for personal projects has made me realize how nice it is to be able to fabricate anything that strikes your fancy.

The little Harbor Freight machine is one of the ones I looked at. Yeah, I'm sure those have some serious limitations. I don't have the budget for a big machine, and space would be a mild problem. I don't think I'd be making much serious stuff. I'd like the ability to machine small things. For example, for the bath remodel I had some aluminum or chrome brackets for glass shelves in mind, but couldn't find a pre-made one anywhere. I can't imagine that would be a challenge even for the most "mini" machines. This is the sort of thing I've often wanted to make.

Mick, your info was excellent and most useful. Brings me to ask about blades though. I assume, like router blades, that there is a variety of bits/blades that you'd have around for different cuts? Are they ridiculously expensive? Are they carbide, or what? Do they last?


:shock: :worship: What's your closest airport, and can you give me a ride? I'll bring beer and drawings.

Post 'em. I'll get a tissue and some lube ready.

:shock: I don't want to know! :shock:

For the lathe you can buy a basic set of tools that will do most jobs probably $20-30 High Speed Steel or Carbide tipped would be good enough for alloy, mild steel, brass etc

there are more specialised tools for boring large holes, cutting threads or harder metal eg stainless steel which you could get as and when you worked your way up to using them.
The mill tools are the same spec as the lathe tools, face or edge cutters for the basic stuff then more specialised ones- different diameters and different angles- dovetailing etc. They can be mounted either in the chuck or via a taper or collet system depending on what you have. If you're buying new a lot of the machines include a basic set of tools for the machine that should get you going.

It would be well worth your while getting a book on turning/milling as it will explain much better the different types of tools and cutters and what they are best suited for. What might look an ideal tool to say turn down a piece of aluminium may well do the job but leave the work a lot rougher than if you had used one with the correct cutting angle which would give you a lot better finish. Sounds complicated but once you've seen the type of tool that suits each job it becomes a lot clearer.

C'mon Joe POST don't be shy :blowjob:

Hey Eric you posting your pics of the Turbo Lawnmower and NOS Hoover ?

It's not really a turbo mower, but it's still faster than stock........ I got bored you day and took the thing apart looking for the govenor, in the middle of the project the wife comes home, sees what I'm doing and gets pissed. I guess I should have waited until the newness had worn off..... it was only a month old. :grin:

I would post pics if it was worth it but it's just a lawnmower.

You're my hero dude :cool: , a self confessed "if it ain't broke don't fix it" antichrist :twisted:

First off - I don't have a lathe, any turning I've done has been with a 4th axis on a mill.

I do have 3 Fadal Vertical Machine Centers. I also have a Jet bench mill in my basement. A handy item to have at home.

When I started out in business all my machine work was done on a drill press with an x-y table with a built in vise. To get to the point. When milling metal the more rigid the machine the faster and smoother the cut.

When working with a drill press or bench mill the key to good results is to be patient and cut slowly.

That being said. The only real limitation you become faced with is the size of the work piece you can fit on a smaller machine. If you determine that you want to do it as a money maker then go with CNC equipment. It's the easiest way to get the precision necessary for production. It's amazing how cheap equipment has gotten.

Check with some of the machine tool distributors in your area. They will generally have some display models on their floor and can demonstrate what they can do. A properly set up machine when running with out coolant will toss metal chips that are so hot they come off orange and turn blue when they cool.

Good Luck / KA