Ok, here goes!
I did not take any pictures cause I wanted to see what I could tell first.
But, with as much trouble as it is to get to I hope I can explain good enough.

On the bottom of the air box on the ram air there is two holes for letting out water that gets in when it rains. There is a boss on the outside, two nipples, is a better way to put it that I put some clear hose on both as there are two. I ran it down between number one and two throttle bodys and into a tee. on the branch of the tee I connected a device that will drain the water if any gets in but seals if any pressure happens. I don't know what to call it because I had it from along time ago and it came on a car vacumn system.

Well the purpose was to seal the box so any increase in pressure from the ram air would not go out those holes, you know? Well and I was wondering how much pressure the ram air made. And at what speeds. I am going to connect the map sensor to the innovate lm1 and record what happens.



Well, I took it out to check out the changes I have made today and I must say,,,,,,Without anything but the seat of the pants and my impression of the difference,,,,,,,
Just do it,,,,Damn!!!!!


It pulled harder, from the start. Well that ain't ram, but it did. It really pulled harder mid range. Ok I did find that my pc 2 had been leaned in the low setting. So that was what caused that cause I did set it back to center. Checked the others and they were centered,,,mid and high. I guess iI will have to correct evillxx's program where I richened the idle to 3k,,,,,maybe cause it likes it like it is.

Anyway, I am not ready for those speeds just yet!!!!! It ran up to 140 like I was on nitrous. That is as fast as I am going till I get more stable. It turns way to fast and I think it could throw me off,,,to many g's to hold on. I did have to much toe out,,,should have been toe in,,, and feels much better but need more before I go faster. set at 1/32". I am going to 1/8" and should be good.

Some body needs to try it with a plug where I have the auto drain and see if you can tell if it is really that much pressure going out the drain holes.

Hmmmmmmmmm...............

If I can remember to do it before next wednesday ( or if I can even get a chance for that matter ) I'll try the same thing before I go the the track again. So basically you're saying that the drain holes are draining air pressure from the ram air effect?

Woun't this cause it to run lean at speed?

Hmmmmmmm... is right.

First, I didn't know of these holes you speak of, will go look later.

and secondly, most ram air systems don't really work until 70 mph. So if your seeing better take offs.... that would make me wonder if you weren't haveing leaking issues prior, and now you've fixxed them.

...


Always fucking with shit are'nt you... just can't leave well enough alone. Hmmm... we must be related somehow.

I siliconed mine shut a year ago, didn't notice much difference. Drove through many a downpour and checked the filter box last fall and no signs of any water whatsoever.

I don't think you should have to adjust your fueling as that is what the factory MAP sensor is for
I could be wrong though.

Dave

The map sensor takes care of the fuel adjustments, and the pressure would be higher at lower speeds than it was. With two 1/4 inch holes it would leak a lot of the pressure at lower speeds. I think since my pc had been corrected with the manual buttons and I didn't know, and I had corrected the program below 3k to fix the lean condition, when I changed the pc manual buttons, I made it rich,,,,,er at the low rpm.
I will do some afr recording this weekend, and see if I can get the connection from the map to the lm1 and see if the pressure changes with and without the plug.

I think I might be related to a bunch of folks here, Eric.

Well, what happened??

Well, so far, above speed limit, the egt's go up above 1350 and it stopped accelerating at 135. Not enough fuel with Eric's map. I had to richen to get down to 1200. That makes more power above 90 but I pushed the hose out of the tee so I think it is making box pressure. I also had to plug some holes that you would not have to . They are on either side, inside, by the steering stem. It has rained so much I have not done the wiring to the map sensor. That is the real proof. I will have to supply pressure to the sensor artifially. and read the voltage, and program the lm1 with that number. Turn the recorder on and make a run with and without the hose pluged. If it changes the map sensor and the afr before and after we will know.
Sorry I have been preoccupied with ozarxx trip, Leon Russel concert, Sport bike rally at Irrian, oh yeah work. I will get to it, because I have seen that I really have a wall at 140. Will not accelerate any faster. Now that I have the stability good at those speeds, I can make some runs. Just not very often. This weekend, at Ozarxx, not many places to get above 100, but with the stock map, and the system correct, together, it pulled hard, never layed down like before. I had put a 18 on the front before I left, and I was still looking for 7th, just not above 7k.
I want to have real info, before I sayanything, but if you ask I will give updates.
I was really hoping somebody else would do the high speed testing,,,,,,,I still got some work to feel that safe, at that speed.

Damn, I just had the airbox out to install my HID's and I forgot to screw with this..........

I think.........


you're hitting a wall at 135 - 40ish , because of your Steering geometery.

That some bitch is a frigin bear to turn.

With 6% caster, at 140 mph, those car tires are trying to dive into the ground.

Remember that those forces are going to exponetial.

I would either put the Caster at 1% with 0% camber, -or- put the caster at 0% and then camber it at +1%.

Then try again.

Yeah... what Eric said!

Seriously, QUAD, that is an amazing looking machine! Do you have its construction documented anywhere? I'd enjoy knowing more about it.

The thing I most wonder about is the integrity of the rear axle at speed. Without any outboard axle trunions it amazes me it's willing to track straight. Is it a one-piece axle? If so, how does it turn at speed?? Takes a lot of balls to crack a ton on that machine!

Well, Eric, when I got home I figured out that I had turned the preload adjuster the wrong way, caster was up to 10 deg. I had the tires at 20 for the ride instead of 32 like I had with Vic on it.
So the steerng might be a little heavy for you but It will track down the hwy without any input. Of course it is an exercise machine for me. That is why I was wore out when we got back. I am going to tne out all of the angle just to see, but I don't think the thing I was talking about with the wall was drag related as before I was able to do 135 in 5th before I closed the box and the egts were 1200 not 1350. I think it leaned out. I had backed off before due to the twitchyness, if that is a word. Darty maybe. But I was plus on the toe in and going neg removed that.

As to how I did the conversion, well documented here since the start. I had no idea what to do, so I just winged it. Never thought it would work like it does. It has no differental, solid axle and hubs. Standard motorcross stuff, but all aftermarket. The rear carrier housing came from a stock 400ex swingarm that one of the boys broke twice and the third time I told him he needed a aftremarket race one. Kept it and used the end on this with a doubble roller billitt carrier. Axle is a durablue x33 with pened hubs. I killed three alum. sproket hubs before they made me a cm steel one. I killed the cast hubs, well one of them, so I had some cnc'd out of 7075 billitt. Going to do the front hubs soon. The front spindles are standard cannondale as well as the hubs.
For background, I welded a cannondale front frame on the bird frame. It fit like it was factory. Can not get it wrong. The rear is bird just cut the welds and straightened the legs and angled into the 400ex carrier Fit like a glove, could not get wrong.
Nothing to it really.
Now there are some tricks in there, I am not going to lie to ya.


Hey, Eric, Todd was able to turn it. I think having a solid bar is a good thing. Oh, yeah, the dampener was on full also.

As to how it turns at speed,,,,well it picks up the inside rear tire when you turn because of roll, well the compression of the outside front supension. This removes the need for a diff. Now slow speed scrubs the tires on the rear. We lean forward and out to unload the inside rear tire a little at slow turns, like walking speeds. Above 4 mph not needed. Once you can compress the front in a turn it unloads the inside rear, and around you go.
Now at any more you lean inside just like a bike, only the bike does not lean. I know for sure it will rail at the same speed a bike does. From behind I am told it picks up the rear, but I can't feel it.

per our discussion at the meet...

I would also be scared to set the steering Geo at Zero -Zero. But I would go for a negative .5 - 1 % on the caster, with a zero camber, and zero toe.

The Camber and toe will give you the twitchyness you speak of because of the plowing forces generated, then ever time one tire looses it Load slightly, the other tire would push fast, making for a very unstable steering feel.

The Negative caster with zero camber on the other hand should give you a more constant bite. Basically the tires will constantly be trying to grab the road. But too much grab (6%).. will act increasingly harder on the bike as the speed increases. So the faster you go.. the more it will be Biting and in esence braking.

The solid rear should also give you some more straight line stability, since it will always want to go straight. As far as the rear axle flex, believe it or not but it only adds to your cornering traction. As the axle flex's it creates more negative Camber, and thus increases the tires side force contact patch. Although there is also a happy medium to this as well. Following you so last saturday, led me to thinking it might be flexing just a bit too much. If it was mine... after I got the front end sorted out, I would try shortening the rear shafts, maybe 2 " on each side.

Instead of modeling your numbers after automobile stuff... you might want to look at the Cart specs. As they more resemble what you doing. I had a friend that raced Carts for a while... and that's where I'm pulling some of my dusty memory numbers from.

I also understand all of this is tuesday night quarterbacking from me to you... only your real world testing will find the best set-up, and I wish you the best at that.


Other than that It's an awesome machine. Good work.

I dont think the axle will flex, maybe the arm. As far as Cart spec's, if they run those, would relate other than they have no front give. I know that bump and roll and acerman change the contact patch. I had thought that neg camber would run on the inside or the tire when straight. It is flat now, at 0 deg.
I was thinking I wanted a wider axle. But, if you saw flex I sure don't.
I need to do some temp checks with the ir gun.

Ok, you made me go look, Eric, and I thought I had turned the preload asjuster the right way. And I had. But it was lower in the back, alot lower, too low. The tag was hitting the swing arm.
Before, I had it set up easy enough to let a girl drive it, so when you said it was hard,,,, the changes I had made, didn't add up to you thinking it was hard!

Broken rear shock mount on the swingarm. Well cracked that is. You didn't go off road did ya????

Oh well, back to the drawing board.

Now I'm glad I didn't ride it, you would have blamed the fat guy for sure!!!


Also, in regards to axle flex; there is definitely a certain amount of it while you are riding. When you and the wifey road out to Cycle Gadgets, Todd and I were behind you in the truck. There was a noticable amount of flex although I'm sure the axle was designed to flex some.......... Just wanted you to know.

Well, not quite off road...

Dirt Road, maybe.

But, I'll never tell you that she comes around really fast...

Going in circles...

Well.... I had to turn around somewhere. Plus I had to find out how stable she was in a slide.



But in all fairness the road was smooth... no bumps, and I was easy on her. She's Fun.

Too bad you live so far away.... I'ld a loved to take it out for some "test rides" for ya more often.

Can you say,,,,,, get off for the fourth of July around Pikes Peak????
Don't you think that would be a hoot!!!!!
Jeff, I thought you were just big boned.

Naw, I had a mount added to the swingarm from the Cannondale frame that worked good for off road on the direct mount shock. I had built some plates to lower the rear and changed the angle of force on it. Went from straight into the mount to twisting it. Was a test to see if lowering the rear would stick the rear tires better, it did. I ment to add another if I was going to leave it that way. The deal is the mount has to be removable to get the bolt in the lower shock mount. Was going to have to remove the swing arm to do it right. A lot of work to tear it down. I need to add some threaded holes to the new hubs as they are tight and I heat to install.....getting off is work.

Before I had run forward to another tab with a bridge making three points. I had thought the two would be strong enough for the street. Think I will add another to prevent the twisting motion, then throw Jeff on it.


That axle should not flex visability. Now the arm, yes. What are you seeing? Tire changing profile? Sounds like you think it is toeing out in the turns? That might be flex in the arm. Would not think it would do that that way though. Twisting yes.

I had done some research on a rear differental, chain drive type. Found a quaffie that is being used in race cars that use the bird and other motors in race cars. I always thought it would be nessasary on the street. Looked at doing a banjo housing and a-arm. The harley trike rear would work also. Just weight problem for off road. Wondered about aluminum banjo and found an aluminum diff. The kind of flex your talking about might be the problem. Ifr could be more solid. With the expence of cg.

I wonder sometimes about sticking on a stock rear how it would work,,,like the Can Am, just for fun. Don't think that if I am flexing that axle, that it would corner as well with the single rear at speed but it would turn better slow. Sure would be easier and cheaper to build.

A highSchool buddy, that lives 2 blocks away, built and raced his 310 Honda up Pikes Peak last year. Wasn't able to make it myself. But have always wanted to go...

They now have a Exabision Class... that's basically unlimited. We have some ideas going for building a Very radical Racer. Won't happen on this years budget... but we'll see about later.

Personally I would love to race up the hill, but my wife think's it's too dangerous and won't even let me think about it. So I have to help my friend for any involvement.

You come up for the races.. and I'll make time. PM me more about this if it looks like it might be a go.

I had heard it was invitation only,hence the involvement of Bobby Parr, a friend who holds the record. He is running monster trucks now but I got involved with him in the Quad wars. Can not get him to call me back after he saw the quad bird. He has a cousin that my son knows well. may have to get him to get in touch. Hell I would run up it and that is for sure. Bobby is fast but I am faster on this in the dirt.

It seems almost shamefull to use that awsome machine in the dirt , but I guess that's partially what you made it for. Too bad that you aren't going to be able to make it to the Moroso event by me. They will be racing ( Drag , full 1/4 mile ) quads. Being that I have never seen that before, I'm kinda looking forward to that portion of the night.

You monkeys cant stay focused on the thread?? AIR BOX MOD? Whats the final verdict?

good point, oh wait , I posted this, and I need to do something, wire the map sensor to the lm 1 and program. Well I been building the new shock mount cause I broke the other one and blamed Eric. He can take it. Thought I had a good mount but it is to low, coool but lo low.
Wish I could run it that low, but hits the mufflers. I can shorten them enough to clear, or change the mount.
Sorry ASC I should be doing the map sensor, but I can't ride.
Priorities.

Quadwars mmmmmmm sound's interesting, Heres the rear of mine

neighbor has a ds, and we ride together all the time. He is a big guy. Nice cushy ride that cooks. Love the collored tires!

Ok, still off topic,,,Built a new shock mount, reset the caster to 4 deg at lowest preload.
Hell, that freed up about 50 horspower. Turns very easy. Front end pushes on concrete now. Rear brake will slide the rear. New pads hh ebc.

Ok, here is the deal, I think the flex is in the swingarm. Went through it and checked everything. The flex is showing up when I apply the rear brake hard and the rear tires will chatter. Twisting. To get rid of I will have to plate the top and bottom. Not sure if it is needed.

Will try to hook up the map tomorrow.

Ok, now that was a long day,,,!!!!

I finally got everythng wired to the Innovate LM1 from the MAP sensor. I have it reading volts right now. It reads o volts before I start the motor, and around 2 volts at idle. Blip the throttle and it goes higher volt, so vacumn make more volts and pressure wil be lower volts.

My baro watch was dead so I went and got some new batterys. I will take some readings and program the recorder tomorrow. Will do hg, I think.

I think something cool will be the difference in the K&N and stock air cleaners.

Not sure about posting the readings yet, but I think Iwas able to get something up between Eric and I last time.
I want to work this so the program changes to the pc will be part of the results.




Oh yeah, the lines were full of bugs, had to clean them out.

Input Description
Stochiometric: 1.4
From device: LM-1 (LM-1:0) LM-1 (LM-1:1) LM-1 (LM-1:2) LM-1 (LM-1:3)
Name: LM1_O2 LM1_1 LM1_2 LM1_3
Unit: AFR RPM tpi inHgVac
Range: 7.35 0 -12 0
equiv(Sample): 0 0 0 0
to: 22.39 7000 110 32.01
equiv(Sample): 1024 1024 1024 1024
Color: 14418140 0 16711680 53352
-End-
Session 1
Time(sec) LM1_O2 (AFR) LM1_1 (RPM) LM1_2 (tpi) LM1_3 (inHgVac)
379.863 11.13 6904 1.4 10.17
379.945 11.25 6904 0.8 10.36
380.027 11.44 2518 3.6 12.52
380.109 12.35 2429 4.1 13.36
380.191 13.1 2333 5.7 13.77
380.273 11.94 6966 5.5 13.39
380.355 11.23 6966 5.3 13.39
380.436 11.1 2457 6.4 14.24
380.518 11.11 2511 7 14.52
380.6 11.01 2511 8.3 15.36
380.682 10.73 2573 6.6 14.24
380.764 10.73 2607 7.2 14.42
380.846 10.82 2607 6.6 14.36
380.928 10.86 2655 7.1 14.33
381.01 10.92 2675 7 14.24
381.092 10.97 2669 8.8 14.83
381.174 11.01 2778 7.6 14.68
381.256 11.13 2812 9.5 15.08
381.338 11.26 2874 13.3 15.3
381.42 11.01 2901 15.2 15.33
381.501 10.95 2901 16 15.8
381.583 11.36 2901 15.9 15.49
381.665 12.29 2901 16.1 15.36
381.747 12.58 3189 17.2 16.15
381.829 12.61 3189 15 15.14
381.911 12.54 3298 15.1 15.36
381.993 12.54 3408 15.3 15.43
382.075 12.55 3442 17 15.74
382.157 12.47 3517 15.5 15.61
382.239 12.47 6986 16.1 15.43
382.321 12.45 3681 17.3 15.8
382.403 12.54 3702 16.9 15.46
382.484 12.51 3825 18.2 15.68
382.566 12.41 3873 19.4 15.43
382.648 11.85 6986 23.3 16.27
382.73 11.77 4078 20.4 15.86
382.812 12.36 4222 21.4 15.46
382.894 12.38 4222 21.2 15.74
382.976 12.22 4345 23.8 16.43
383.058 12.19 4345 26.2 16.36
383.14 11.77 4461 27.5 15.96
383.222 11.39 3052 32.1 16.11
383.304 11.52 3107 37.5 16.21
383.386 11.86 3223 42.1 16.55
383.468 11.66 3291 45.4 16.77
383.549 12.1 3291 48.3 16.74
383.631 12.67 3510 49.9 16.52
383.713 12.86 3586 49.7 16.46
383.795 13.17 3633 47.6 16.33
383.877 13.26 3743 45.4 16.21
383.959 13.33 3866 47.4 16.3
384.041 12.88 3907 63.7 16.08
384.123 12.26 4037 72.8 16.21
384.205 12.2 4147 86.1 16.68
384.287 12.16 4222 98.4 16.58
384.369 12.35 4338 98.9 16.49
384.451 12.58 4455 99.1 16.08
384.532 12.67 4516 100.9 16.77
384.614 12.55 4626 100.7 16.9
384.696 12.51 4756 101.2 16.05
384.778 12.47 4817 98.9 16.27
384.86 12.52 4954 99.4 16.36
384.942 12.61 5091 100.8 16.55
385.024 12.66 5132 99.6 15.99
385.106 12.57 5255 100.7 16.74
385.188 12.41 5371 98.8 15.93
385.27 12.45 5447 100 16.18
385.352 12.2 5549 100.1 16.24
385.434 12.27 5645 100.8 16.74
385.516 12.19 5748 99.4 16.52
385.597 12.2 5837 99.3 16.36
385.679 12.29 5980 99.3 16.58
385.761 12.25 6042 99.1 16.18
385.843 12.25 6158 99.4 16.43
385.925 12.13 6275 100.7 15.77
386.007 12.29 6323 100.2 16.27
386.089 12.41 6453 101.1 16.55
386.171 12.44 6542 100.9 17.05
386.253 12.44 6596 100.8 16.52
386.335 12.39 6699 98.9 16.08
386.417 12.3 6829 99.9 16.05
386.499 12.32 6884 99 16.18
386.58 12.16 6952 99.6 16.68
386.662 12.08 6986 100.8 16.87
386.744 11.95 6986 98.3 16.99
386.826 11.86 6986 99.7 15.3
386.908 11.82 6986 100.9 16.4
386.99 11.69 6986 99.1 16.43
387.072 11.6 6986 58.8 16.18
387.154 10.95 6986 1 6.79
387.236 12.98 6986 39.9 15.55
387.318 10.86 5084 55.7 16.46
387.4 11.2 5084 71.4 15.8
387.482 11.86 5474 85.4 16.21
387.564 11.97 5474 96.3 16.58
387.645 11.76 5584 100.1 16.65
387.727 11.77 5604 99.1 16.62
387.809 12.08 5700 99.4 16.65
387.891 12.05 5714 99.9 16.49
387.973 12.14 5748 98.1 15.86
388.055 12.16 5707 99.4 16.9
388.137 12.16 5850 99.1 16.11
388.219 12.17 5898 98.7 15.93
388.301 12.17 5926 99.4 16.52
388.383 12.2 5960 98.6 15.8
388.465 12.27 5960 99.5 16.74
388.547 12.27 6083 99.7 16.49
388.628 12.14 6131 100.8 16.83
388.71 12 6172 99.4 16.3
388.792 11.91 6186 98.2 16.15
388.874 12.05 6247 99.7 16.4
388.956 12.11 6254 98.8 16.27
389.038 12.11 6343 98.7 16.93
389.12 12.13 6384 99.7 16.33
389.202 12.14 6405 98.9 16.36
389.284 12.2 6453 99.4 15.9
389.366 12.27 6507 100.7 16.8
389.448 12.3 6521 99.4 16.27
389.53 12.29 6583 98.8 16.21
389.612 12.27 6644 99.1 16.36
389.693 12.23 6665 98.4 16.24
389.775 12.2 6665 99.3 16.36
389.857 12.13 6733 99.9 16.18
389.939 12.17 6754 99 16.18
390.021 12.16 6815 98.4 16.3
390.103 12.16 6856 98.7 16.02
390.185 12.13 6884 100.7 16.8
390.267 12.11 6925 101.3 17.18
390.349 12.01 6925 99.3 16.24
390.431 11.98 6959 98.7 15.68
390.513 12 6979 100.9 16.9
390.595 11.91 6986 100.7 16.18
390.676 11.92 6986 98.9 16.52
390.758 11.79 6986 99.7 16.02
390.84 11.79 6986 99.5 16.18
390.922 11.73 6986 99.9 16.08
391.004 11.72 6986 100.5 16.74
391.086 11.73 6986 99 15.52
391.168 11.72 6986 101.2 16.99
391.25 11.72 6986 98.4 15.77
391.332 11.66 6986 100.5 16.65
391.414 11.69 6986 99.3 15.86
391.496 11.7 6986 99.3 15.33
391.578 11.61 6986 100.8 16.58
391.66 11.52 6986 101.3 16.49
391.741 11.6 6986 98.7 16.74
391.823 11.48 6986 98.2 15.61
391.905 11.44 6986 98.8 15.96
391.987 11.47 6986 99.4 16.24
392.069 11.36 6986 99.5 15.93
392.151 11.39 6986 100.6 16.68
392.233 11.45 6986 100.5 16.18
392.315 11.39 6986 98.8 16.4
392.397 11.3 6986 100.7 16.3
392.479 11.39 6986 100.8 15.93
392.561 11.36 6986 99.3 15.52
392.643 11.38 6986 99.7 15.83
392.724 11.32 6986 99.4 15.77
392.806 11.33 6986 99 15.52
392.888 11.23 6986 100.9 15.86
392.97 11.32 6986 99.4 15.83
393.052 11.3 6986 99.4 16.18
393.134 11.22 6986 99.1 16.33
393.216 11.38 6986 99.4 15.46
393.298 11.22 6986 99 16.3
393.38 11.26 6986 100.6 15.93
393.462 11.25 6986 99.7 16.4
393.544 11.27 6986 100 15.71
393.626 11.22 6986 98.9 16.33
393.708 11.16 6986 99.1 16.02
393.789 11.2 6986 99.1 15.55
393.871 12.61 6986 98.7 16.24
393.953 14.6 6986 99.1 15.77
394.035 15.86 6986 99.5 16.36
394.117 14.74 6986 99.7 15.68
394.199 11.29 6986 13.8 14.36
394.281 9.8 6056 0 5.41
394.363 10.91 5980 0.6 5.29
394.445 11.29 5871 2.4 5.48
394.527 11.5 5960 24 14.55
394.609 10.45 5987 30.5 15.68
394.691 10.5 6124 42.9 16.24
394.772 11.11 5987 46.6 16.58
394.854 11.35 6008 55.9 16.43
394.936 11.75 6069 66.9 16.46
395.018 12 6131 76.5 16.21
395.1 12.38 6158 91.6 16.24
395.182 12.36 6110 99.3 16.33
395.264 12.05 6206 99.6 16.74
395.346 12.04 6199 99.1 16.33
395.428 12.14 6179 98.9 15.74
395.51 12.11 6179 100.8 16.27
395.592 12.13 6206 99.1 16.33
395.674 12.07 6227 102.7 16.02
395.756 12.07 6227 100.9 17.24
395.837 11.98 6234 99.4 16.27
395.919 12 6295 99.4 16.36
396.001 12.04 6268 98.9 16.24
396.083 12.01 6268 99.4 16.3
396.165 11.95 6329 98.1 16.21
396.247 12.04 6302 100.1 16.33
396.329 11.97 6336 100.2 17.02
396.411 12.07 6364 97.2 16.93
396.493 12.1 6370 98 16.49
396.575 12.11 6370 100.5 17.33
396.657 11.85 6405 100.7 17.02
396.739 12 6412 100.8 16.58
396.82 12.04 6425 99.3 16.43
396.902 12.22 6446 99.7 15.96
396.984 12.08 6432 100.6 16.46
397.066 12.1 6473 99.1 16.49
397.148 12.11 6494 100.6 16.62
397.23 12.14 6507 99.7 17.27
397.312 12.13 6528 98.9 16.02
397.394 12.1 6507 99.6 16.4
397.476 12.17 6514 101.3 16.02
397.558 12.2 6528 100.7 17.37
397.64 12.26 6535 98.4 15.71
397.722 12.07 6583 98.2 16.18
397.804 12.19 6569 99 16.24
397.885 12.17 6562 98.8 16.33
397.967 12.22 6610 98.1 16.3
398.049 12.17 6603 98.6 16.08
398.131 12.19 6610 101.2 16.18
398.213 12.22 6610 98.9 16.05
398.295 12.16 6624 100.3 16.62
398.377 12.26 6617 99.1 16.55
398.459 12.13 6624 98.9 16.49
398.541 12.16 6644 99.4 16.55
398.623 12.25 6672 99.9 15.86
398.705 12.13 6706 98.6 16.3
398.787 12.19 6685 100.8 16.9
398.868 12.11 6699 99.7 16.36
398.95 12.1 6692 98.9 16.27
399.032 12.2 6699 100.8 16.18
399.114 12.14 6733 100.6 16.99
399.196 12.13 6740 100.2 15.86
399.278 12.14 6877 99.4 16.33
399.36 12.13 6726 100.3 17.05
399.442 12.1 6726 99.1 16.4
399.524 12.11 6747 98.2 15.96
399.606 12.1 6795 99 16.3
399.688 12.08 6795 98.3 15.58
399.77 12.08 6815 99.4 16.46
399.852 12.05 6802 100.7 16.77
399.933 12.13 6829 101.2 16.11
400.015 12.04 6815 98.7 16.15
400.097 12.01 6836 101.3 16.55
400.179 12 6856 98.9 16.3
400.261 12.08 6863 100.2 16.46
400.343 12.08 6932 99.7 16.05
400.425 12.02 6911 99 16.3
400.507 12 6904 98.7 15.8
400.589 11.97 6911 100.7 16.52
400.671 12 6897 100.2 16.27
400.753 12.05 6897 98.4 16.15
400.835 12.13 6932 100.2 16.18
400.916 12.02 5447 100.9 17.02
400.998 12.04 5447 101.2 17.05
401.08 12 6952 99.3 16.15
401.162 12.04 6938 100.2 16.02
401.244 11.95 6959 100.1 16.15
401.326 11.92 6945 100 16.58
401.408 11.95 6986 100.1 16.93
401.49 11.95 6979 100 16.68
401.572 11.91 6979 79.8 16.46
401.654 10.82 6959 14.7 13.99
401.736 11.11 6877 0.4 5.85
401.818 13.1 6884 1.5 5.63
401.9 12.08 5590 5.7 8.82
401.981 12.33 5501 10.1 10.89
402.063 13.22 5543 11.9 11.89
402.145 11.82 5584 7.1 10.64
402.227 13.74 5563 5.4 9.42
402.309 15.21 5563 5.8 8.98
402.391 15.55 5495 5.9 9.07
402.473 14.57 5460 5.2 8.7
402.555 13.82 5460 5.4 8.42
402.637 13.57 5419 7.1 9.04
402.719 13.3 5399 3.7 8.39
402.801 13.83 5378 5.2 8.7
402.883 13.67 5337 6.8 8.89
402.964 13.85 5289 6 8.86
403.046 13.76 5276 4.7 8.54
403.128 13.11 5303 4.2 8.32
403.21 13.05 5283 5.3 8.98
403.292 12.38 5241 4.2 9.07
403.374 12.85 5207 5.9 8.6
403.456 13.47 5180 3.5 7.79
403.538 14.19 5125 1.8 6.98
403.62 15.08 5118 3.3 7.23
403.702 16.21 5105 1.1 6.76


rpm is fuped,,,7000 is 11000
If this is the run I thnk it is I ran out of gas flow ,,,low on gas,,,egt's went way high quit pulling at 120 mph. I shut it down and got gas.
Just for info, pc2 is programed with stock program. I think it is better without the pc2 but I ain't pulling it just yet.
this is with the lines pluged.
Now that I have things connected and somewhat working and recording, I am going to do some things to give us an idea of the changes I have done.
I am going to put a guage on the lines and see what the vacumn is manually.
I am going to change the air filter to the stock one,
And I am going to run the bike without the aircleaner.

Looked like you were pulling about 16 inches of vacuum right before you went lean and lost power.
Seemed to be pretty constant through the different gears too.
Hmmmm.......

makes me wonder about the aircleaner, but as 120 was as fast as I was able to go no real ram effect. Was hoping the vacumn would go down more. I will get things right and then do a back to back with and without the hose vented.
I am going to do some sheilded wires on the sensors to get rid of the interference I am seeing.

CBRXXQUAD,

Speaking for all of us following this thread... Many thanks for your efforts! Although foreign to some, the data could prove very valuable regarding our tuning efforts. And... I don't remember ever seeing comparable information for the Blackbird (or any other bike) anywhere. Should be worth posting on many Blackbird site around the globe!

A couple of things to keep in mind...

From my own experience Datta logging. The hardest part about getting good compariable numbers is trying to control the external variables.

What I mean is, you really have to try and make sure all of the variables are consistent.

The exact same stretch of road,
The same ouside air tempuratures,
Humidity,
Tire inflation,
Rider Tuck (huge),
and lastly any wind or breeze (also huge).

...

Also, if I remember correctly, In an old Sportbike article, testing the Blackbird against the Hyabusa, they had to record the airbox pressures in Millibars, because the psi reading were not acuate enough for true comparisions. This would lead me to believe...

That maybe you need 2 measurement ports... 1 from the airbox, and 1 from the intake manifold. Then cross comparing them to your other data, and cancelling out the external Load variables, should give you some good numbers.

Keep up the good fight... I like it.

Last night, I was thinking the same thing. I wanted to set it to mb and can, but not sure that anybody would relate well. It allows me to calibrate to the atmos condition.
When I pulled it down to put the euro switch on I got from John,(thanks John I got yesterday) and put the powerbronze screen on, and put sheilded wiring to the sensors, I found that the lines I had put on for a way to drain the possible liquids had come off. I had found that the other end had blowed apart before. This leads me to think I am getting positive pressure!!!!!
I was thinking that I might try to figure how to connect the speedo drive into the Lm1 and add another map sensor up stream of the air cleaner.

Eric, I would like to post the graph, as it is much more entertaining. Just not sure what to do other than a screen shot. Got any Ideas?

trial picture of scan of print, with corrected rpm and millibars

Just got off the phone with Nology. It seams that the non resistor plugs they require when you have their wires and coils, will cause interferinece with the ecm and knock and will retard the timing. They say if you have fuel injection you may have to run resistor plugs to prevent multi spark ignition being read as knock by the knock sensor and retarding ignition.
I think I will hold off on the sheilded wiring as the spikes showed when I installed the profire coils and installed nonresistor plugs.
Might explain the vibration I have noticed also.

Updates, tonight with pictures.

I like the graph....

makes me jelious.

I'll study it more later... little busy right now, but it looks like you're have fun, keep up the good work.

I have to say that I really appreciate your efforts and intellegent aproach to this and other experimental questions you have undertaken with your project. Much more in depth than I am capeable of and I enjoy the learning as I read along. I envy your patience.

+1 totally agree

Click to view attachmentPersonally, I am just glad to find someone that is interested. I am really quite the moto nerd and most of the stuff that I dig is lost on my friends. They think it's cool that I can, but mostly have not a clue.

Got another run in last night before Vick and I went to see Spiderman and Surfs up at the drive-in.

I think you can tell the difference in the map graph with the holes in the airbox pluged with the lines on, now, when I shut the throttle. In case I lost it in before the lines were open in the graph in the last post. They had blowed off, and I had to tye wrap to hold them together.

I think I figured out something. I am going faster than I thought, I put on an 18 before Ozarkxx and with my rears at 25 tall, well the change in the plugs and I gave up before the bike got done with 4th. The speedo jumps to 80 in first and pulls like gangbusters in second to 100, and third goes like stink to 120, in fouth well about mid range as you can see I am going faster than I can react to the forces, says 129. That just don't figure. Something is very wrong with my speedo according to the gear chart.
As the charts, seem to be acceptable. One is hard pull through the gears till I could not control it any more and shut off, not that smooth a road and I am set up really loose and soft.
Second is a 6th gear pinned at 70 mph start to around 100.

Atmos. conditions were 890 yesterday.

I thought that some pictures would help.
first is the two holes in the air box.
Second is the lines.
Third is the conection between them and the deal that will let water out but seals when it sees any pressure.
Will do back to back tomorrow.

I had a friend who was dying to drill a few 1" holes through my airbox lid and re-jet the bike. He did the same to his VFR (and swapped his K&N filter back to stock) and saw about a 10hp gain on the dyno. I'm guessing an XX may be good for an extra 15hp if done correctly. Anyone here ever try this on a non-ramair XX?

Why stop there ? Go ahead & change out the velocity stack's with shorter or longer one's, OR stagger them short on outside cylinder's longer one's on inner cylinder's ? together they should be good for another 20HP ?