This is still in the cranial stage right now, but I've got some questions for those who have de-linked... I read everything I could find on here, but didn't find what I was looking for...

OK, so I get how to drill the holes in the calipers and all that jazz, but I've got some othis questions...

I put the HH pads all around, and still would like more braking using the lever... There's PLENTY of brakes if I use my last (3) fingers, but I like riding with my pointer finger on the lever, and even with the HH pads, I'd still like a bit more braking out of the front end, but I do like the little bit of rear brake applied with the front, especially when 2-up... On the other hand, the more dirt I ride, the more I like to use JUST the rear brake on sand/gravel/possible ice situations, and about had the front end wash out on me the other day from using just the rear brake...

(option 1) So I'm thinking this... I'm thinking about de-linking (drilling) the front calipers, but keeping the secondary fork master cylinder working, and powering the center piston on the rear brake, and just using the rear pedal to actuate the outter pistons on the rear only... The way I'm thinking is; with the secondary MC powering only the center piston of the rear, that'll give just a LITTLE bit of rear brake to settle the chassis out when trail braking, especially when 2-up, and the rear will be just the rear...

(option 2) The other thing I just though of is, I wonder if I could leave the clip-on MC the same, and just use the secondary MC to power the middle piston on each front, and the middle piston on the rear, and use the rear MC to power the outer (2) pistons on the rear caliper... Seems to me that this would be pretty much "free" power to the front brakes... This will be completely reversable, as far as I can see, but I thought of this about 5 minutes ago, so who knows without actually looking at the bike... (EDIT: Wait... that may make the front brakes drag, because of making a loop that, once the clip-on MC turns it on, the secondary MC keeps it going by powering itself with itself... OK, so couldn't do both center pistons with that one... just the right side only, I'd guess, because that wouldn't be in the feedback loop of the secondary MC... hmmm...)

Anyway, if I do (option 1) above, I know it really could use a larger bore size clip-on MC, like from the 900RR or whatever, but for those who have tried it, does the stock MC with rubber lines, powering the stock 4 pistons, feel about the same as it does with stainless lines, powering all 6 pistons? If it does, I can live with that, and that'd give some more mechanical (or rather, hydrolic) advantage, but if it's "80's bike with rubber lines" spongy, I may have to look into something else...

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Mike

You may have some joy from trying to contact JAWS at http://www.jaws-motorcycles.co.uk/ or post on the BIRD site superblackbird.co.uk + http://www.bikersoracle.com/blackbird/foru...searchid=241876

I don't think Jaws (John Smith) will be alot of help on delinking but you never know. His direct email addy is :
Straightfour@aol.com

First thing, don't drill your calipers. Try it just usng the outer two and see what you think.

By drilling the caliper you must have a very large master cylinder. Even larger if you want one finger control. Timmy had a different (Larger) master cylinder on his bike with drilled calipers and they felt mushy to me.

Option two sound overly complicated and difficult to plumb. It'd probably take some experimenting to get right as well. My opinion, it'd probably be a lot of work for little gain.

Jeff is right, even with a 5/8" bore (stock is 1/2") my front lever had more travel than a stock bike. Feel was fine and it was literally impossible to to pull it back far enough to touch the backs of my fingers, but it was softer than a properly maintaned stock system*.

Drilling the calipers and adding the secondary on the fork would probably get you into that "too soft" lever you're afraid of. I wouldn't even bother considering using all six up front with the stock master- I did exactly that for about 4000 miles and never got used to the spongy, vague feel.

I think I may have a set of calipers around here somewhere (unmodified) if you need them for experimentation.



*I pulled a lot of levers at meets. Some were as soft as softer than mine. Most were firmer. I'd blame any of the softer ones on poorly maintaned systems.

hmmm... I see... Well, I guess I'll start with stainless lines and see where we go from there...

That was exactly the information I was looking for, though, thanks guys!

Tim, I might take you up on those calipers after the stainless lines, depending on how they go...


Also, did anybody notice any appreciable "power" increase when going to the Piazzo(sp) levers, due to any mechanical advantage or anything?

Thanks,
Mike

Oh, yeah, stainless lines- I was running them, never ran delinked without them, so no comparison for you.


The Pazzo levers make zero difference in in "power". A lever is a lever, it mounts and pivots where the stock lever did and pushes on the stock master, the geometry remains completely unchanged. They sure are pretty, though.

OK, cool... I had heard about people saying they had a lot less fatigue from braking after riding all day, but I didn't know if it was because the lever shape caused you to move the master cylinder farther away from the switch housing, giving a better mechanical advantage, but I didn't know if it was real or people's impressions...

Mike

I can't remember whether he has done the delink directly but he has offered some good info at times in regards to the process on BIRD and I believe he also now stocks a delinking kit that was developed by BlackbirdPete Delink kits. BBPete has apparently done quite a bit of work with delinking so knows all the pitfalls etc and JAWS seems to have a good relationship with him so may be able to put you onto BBPete

As far as the Pazzo's I noticed no difference in braking, but the clutch was much more comfortable esp. in stop and go traffic. Much less fatigue. I'm back to stock now since I bent the brake lever in the accident. I'm not sure if I'll replace the brake lever or not. I'll probably just wait for someone to part with theirs.

So what would be the effect of using a bigger MC ( like a 5/8" ) on the stock system , would that give more pressure or less, I am aware of the soft lever on my bike ( I can't imagine just using 2 fingers to brake ) and will look at stainless lines to see if that helps

I have the pazzo leveres also.

Where I noticed the big difference was having the "Shorties".
Shortened levers don't get broken off in a slide.
With the Stainless lines the shorty levers are awesome.
Shortened pull
I use two fingers always

The effect would be less lever travel and a harder feel. You will have to exert more lever pressure to get the same braking effect. It would equate to changing to higher gearing with your sprockets.

I'd try replacing the fluid first and see if that helps. Two, or even one fingered braking shouldn't be a problem with the stock system in good shape.

Braided lines make an almost inperceivable difference in feel and performance. While the stock rubber lines do swell under pressure, it's not nearly enough for any of us to ever feel it.

That depends on how new the rubber brake lines are... if they're more than about 7 years old, I do think new lines (rubber or SS) should be considered... When I went from the stock lines to the SS lines on my Nighthawk, it was a HUGE difference, and I had just bled the stockers on a regular basis, so it wasn't a question of new pads or new fluid at the same time that i was feeling... On that bike, it was a question of whether or not I could easily touch the lever to the grip with the stock lines, or not come close no matter how I tried with the aftermarket SS lines...

I blead my brakes pretty frequently, and Travis's lever is much more firm than mine,and all he's added is the SS lines, and I do blead the fluid pretty regular on this bike also... I've looked, and can actually see the lines swell and move when I grab the lever very hard... Also, even with new pads, right after I blead the system, I can get the lever to touch the bar if I pull with all my fingers as hard as I can, but I never touch my fingers that are still on the lever during even pannic braking, so I'm exerting MUCH more force to the brakes to get them to touch than I ever would while moving...

Mike

That's my point.

The rubber lines won't provide much in the way of feel and performance under normal riding. Sitting in the garage with full pressure on the lines, yes they do swell some. You'll never use that kind of pressure while riding though.