OK, I'm nowhere near the level of some you guys (but I'm trying).
Here's my problem with my '97 XX with about 13K miles on it: Upon startup this spring, it runs like shit!! Last ride of last season was fine. This year, it was very hard to start (1st time ever). Once it did start, I had to leave the choke open to keep it running. (despite potential plug fouling). When the bike reaches full operating temperature, the choke has to be left at about 1/2 postion. This will get the idle around 1000 - but it still sounds weird. Moving the choke even a hair lower causes an immediate engine stall (no sputter - just dies instantly). I filled the tank with fresh gas and took it for a little ride. When it's on the rode and the throttle is open, the bike stills run like one mean machine ( you gotta love a bike that runs great even when it runs like shit !!) So I decided to put new plugs and a new air filter in. While they were needed, the problem remains identical as before. So today I removed the tank and filter box so i could see the carbs and choke slider(hooked to carbs). The Choke lever from OFF to 1/2 position does nothing (almost no resistance on choke lever and no movement of cable at the bottom end). I don't remember the choke lever ever feeling like that before but it appears that moving the lever from 1/2 to full open does work the choke through the full range. I base that on the fact that on the choke slide bar(at the carbs) there are 4 slots (one for each carb) that have a screw threw them. The lever being moved from 1/2 to full open moves the bar from one extreme end of the slot to the other. (which makes me think that there's no cable adjustment problem like I originally thought). The lever action still doesn't seem right though-especially since moving the lever below 1/2 cause a stall! Anyways, now I'm thinking the carbs may be the problem but I am NO carb expert. Could old gas have gummed something up in one or more of the carbs? Pulling the carb, cleaning/rebuilding, and resyncing them is beyond my "comfort level". The only local NON dealer mechanic is out of business or I would have taken it there to begin with. My local dealer is a well known crook and that's why I decided to start the project on my own. DOHH!

I'm stuck trying to decide which way to go. If I should put most of the bike back together and run something like SeaFoam through the system and that doesn't work, then I have to tear it all apart again and try the carbs. While the extra wrenching isn't a big deal, the fact I may have to get into carbs could be. If anyone has read this without falling asleep and is familiar with the carbbed version of the XX, I'd love an opinion on what the problem even is (besides me :)

Thank God I've got an 1800 VTX to ride while I screw with this!!

You're right -classic gummed up carbs, stale fuel over the lay up has varnished up jets/passages, try Seafoam but be prepared to strip and clean the carbs if it doesn't work.

Sounds like you need a carb cleaning :cry: First did you try adjusting the idle speed? On my older bikes the first half of the choke movement gives you fast idle and the rest moves your choke plates so that part sounds normal. As far as doing the carbs yourself they are not difficult, as long as you don't separate them from each other! actually they are real easy to remove on these bikes as compared to my 82 900c. Find yourself a factory manual and take it into the "library" and go through the section for the carbs. That's how I learned. I was scared to death on the first set, but now it's no big deal just do one at a time and PAY ATTENTION!!!
I have a manual here for the 97 if you have any questions.

Oh yeah and welcome to the funny farm. So much info. here it will make your head spin :twisted:

Yep... I garuntee you , you gummed up the carbs...

ever heard of Sta-bil.

Well now you have... so go buy some.

Now for the bad news Your Pilot jets and your emuslsion tubes are plugged.

You need to pull the carbs off and start cleaning.

Sorry.

I didn't try adjusting the idle because the problem seemed to "severe" to be fixed by doing that. I read somewhere that trying to use the idle adjuster to correct problems was a bad idea. I'll try the seafoam but I'll mentally prepare myself for that not to work - looks like I need to get the service manual and just do it! I'm more concerned about the resyncing process than anything else. As far as I could tell, It looked like there's just 4 adjustable clamps holding the carb bank on...is that right?!?

Thanks guys!!

Well as long as you don't pull the carbs apart individually... you shouldn't really need to worry about re-synchronizing them.

Heres my suggestion.

Pull the Carbs all together, pull of the float bowls, remove both the mains and the pilots, remove the emulsion tubes. Spray everything down with Carb cleaner. Especially all of the little pin holes in the bottom of the carbs. You're mainly concerned with the bottom half of the carbs, because that's where the gas has been sitting and dried up. Inspect all the parts for any remaining foriegn matter or residues. Then reinstall everything.

Should run as good as new.

Goodluck, and remember where everything goes when you take it apart, or take photos.
:wink:

Sea Foam BTW is also a stabilizer, when Spring comes you just run it through and it wll also clean.

I'm afraid your pilot jets are completely clogged, since it won't idle. I doubt the Sea Foam will work if it can't even flow through, but it's worth a try.

If not get/download a manual and if you're careful it can be a DIY project.

Welcome, and where are you located? Nobody's bike dies near me in PA, or I'd say bring it to me and I'd make quick work of her.

1st Is completely true.... you'll never get them completely clean unless you take them apart.

And 2ndly....... Maybe that's because nobody wants you to work on their Bike. :wink: So they just don't tell you. :P

Fucker! :flipoff: :moon:

:D

Special Thanks to Pete and EvlXX for some well timed humor!!
I needed the laugh :lol:

Last week it was 80F and today it's snowing again...so to answer your question Pete, I live in Ohio (Canton). I need a heated garage!

It occurs to me that it sounds bizarre that someone can ride one of the fastest speed machines ever built without fear but is afraid to open up some carbs to clean!! Bullshit! You've convinced me to grow a pair and do it!!

Thanks guys!

PS Does anyone know where there's a downloadable version for carbed version? The manual on this forum is for the fuel injected only. If not, I'm going to pony up the bucks and just order one.

Canton??? I'd be amazed if we didn't have an XXr in your area (NE Ohio, W PA) who wouldn't come over and help you for beer and maybe dinner.

Tip: Update your profile and add your location to your profile.

Welcome to the nuthouse!

This weather does suck! I got out maybe 20 min. and had the rain chase me home again.

If you pony up, buy the actual Honda manual. I've had bad luck with various mistakes in Haynes and Chiltons manuals through the years.

http://www.hondadirectline.com/

Is probably the cheapest place to get it.

Lots of good advice. I'd open the carbs right off. In my experience you'll need more than carb clean to clean the pilot jets. A bristle from a wire brush works good or a torch tip cleaner is better. It could have gunked up the emulsion tube too but usually the fuel evaporates so it's below the tube before getting gooey.

The other thing I'd recommend is compressed air.

Once you get the carbs off, and opened, make sure you can blow air through all of the openings.

Only do this if you have removed the carb tops and slide/diaphrams. Otherwise you could pop a hole in a diaphram w/ the compressed air.

Well, I ordered my service manual yesterday.
When resyncing the carbs, how do you hook up the gas tank but keep it out of the way. (I'm assuming the bike needs to be running since you need vacuum) Any special tools required?? (besides someone that knows what they're doing?)

The carbs come off the engine as a set. To do what you need to do you don't need to seperate them. If you don't seperate them or go willy-nilly turning linkage screws on the carbs, you won't need to sync them.

hahahahahahahahahaha - willy nilly - hahahahahahaha

I promise to keep my Willy from going Nilly.
There are some other topics on this forum about carb syncing and some guys seem to think it should be done around every 8K miles.
One Sadist says he does his every year !!!! :shock:

:lol:

I hope you're right !! Thanks for the advice.

You could try a seach for carb sync. The manual has a pretty good explaination that should keep you out of trouble.

Motion-Pro makes a small auxillary tank you can hang over the bike like an IV - works great!!! I've synced the XX carbs 3 times and every time all 4 cylinders were within 1/4" of each other on the gauge before starting. If you have time and want to tinker, sync the carbs. But you probably don't need to.

isn't that thing $70 or some outrageous amount?

JC Whitney sells it for $39.

Looks like it comes with only one 1/4 line.

When I took the lines off the tank, There was one 1/4 line but also 2 lines that were 5/8 OD (3/8 ID) that run to top of the carbs.

How does that jug supply gas to those lines??

Until my manual gets here, I'm confused!

Also, when you resync the carbs, is there any special tool required to reach the adjustment screws or do they happen to be the one thing on the XX you can actually get to easily :)

Remove the airbox and they are phillips screws. I bought a VERY long phillips screwdriver from Sears just for carb syncing. They're accessable but down deep.

I made a tune-up gas tank from a 1 liter coke bottle and the pop top cap from a bottle of dishwash liquid.

Yank on the pop top till it comes off then a fuel hose will just fit with some work.

put a zip tie around the "waist" of the coke bottle then tie a string to it so it forms a loop.

Go to an auto parts store and get a "T" fitting so you can feed both fuel lines.

Fill with gas, hook up hoses and then hang bottle up high for gravity feed.

Just crack open the cap to let air in so the fuel can flow.

Well I decided to reassemble the front of my bike today(from the plug change). I had to laugh reading a recent post about a "better way" to do that!! So I finish up and decided 'what the hell! ' and ripped the carbs off. My manual has not yet arrived but I found it pretty easy to figure out.
I removed the bottom bowls which didn't look horrible until the gas dried.


Now that they're off, I could use a little guidance. Without the manual, I don't what is what. I've labeled the parts that are visible to make it easy for someone to describe what to do. For example "B" is where the float needle goes. Should I attempt the wire cleaning in "C,D & E" ? Should I shoot carb cleaner up the float needle area? (Not likely but I'm new at this.) I'm guessing the problem resides in some combination of "C,D & E".
Since C & D are threaded, I didn't want to play around and lose an important adjustment.

Hopefully your guys' expertise will help out alot of guys that want to learn how to service their own machine. Thanks again for all the help!!

There are no "adjustments" in there. Remove D w/ a screwdriver and clean out the hole in the jet. This is the pilot jet and is probably the source of most of your problems.

C is the main jet and is big enough that it should be ok but check it anyway. Under the main is the emulsion tube remove it w/ a socket. There are very small holes in it that should be cleaned.

What Todd said. Just looking at the pics of your float bowls (redish-brown discoloration) I see we're on the right track.

Also, when working on a bank of carbs it's best to work on 1 at a time, finish it, then go to the next one.

Now is a good time to adjust your pilot screws. They are the little brass "D" screws, one per carb. Turn in till lightly seated then out for 3 turns.

Might want to consider this too.

http://cbr.geckobox.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17764

When you're ready to ride it run some Sea Foam through, and periodically thereafter.

For that matter a 97 with only 13K miles, you might want to KEEP Sea Foam in the tank. :poke:

Success!!

The jets were almost closed with goo. I cleaned the hell out of them and she runs like new now!!
I really appreciate all the advice. You guys kick ass!!

airborne900c in your reply said you have a copy of honda manual for the 97 carby blackbird. Could you please give me a copy of the carby section or tell me the float settings and jets and neddles used. I have got a copy of the manual for the fuel injected bird which is great for everything else.
I need the carby specs and section please if you can help.

Question on that D-shaped pilot adjustment screw: Should I take the screw all the way out and spray carb cleaner in there? Is it okay to take this out or will a bunch of stuff fall apart or something? I've done my main and pilot jet and emulsifiers already.

clean bowls piolots and mains use a torch tip cleaner works best be careful with compressed air as will blow out diaphrams

Just 2 notes. The floats are not adjustable and don't take the pilot screws out. Just lightly seat them and turn 3 turns out.