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Ram air duct removal?


silverbird1100

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If it doesn't screw up engine mapping,,,,, Also, even if ram effect is pretty much irrelevant at anything lower than around 150 those ducts allow engine to draw cool air instead of preheated one.

Cooler air in cooler exhaust out.

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I've never checked the oil temp but it's unlikely to be a problem, especially if you're not riding it hard.  You'll be trading a hot oil cooler for hot intake air, also unlikely to be a problem, but there is a trade off to consider.

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20 hours ago, silverbird1100 said:

If you don’t ride fast enough to pressurize the airbox

 

Homo.

 

But yeah, what Oscar said.  Energy exchange is going to happen one way or the other.  And even riding in AZ heat has never turned my oil dark or made it smell bad, so it's clearly not being baked.  On other vehicles with hotter-running oil, there's a distinct smell change.

 

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Id like to point out cooler intake will lead to lower oli temps, so cooler won't work as hard.

 

Suggestions it does not matter is simply retarded.

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43 minutes ago, tomek said:

Id like to point out cooler intake will lead to lower oli temps, so cooler won't work as hard.

 

Suggestions it does not matter is simply retarded.

Doesn’t oil flow through it the same regardless? Like a radiator without a thermostat?

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"won't work as hard" meaning it becomes less important for it to have great air flow since it has less cooling demand on it.

 

For mild commuter type riding I'd bet you could eliminate the cooler and no harm would be done, hell, it might even do more good than harm.

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59 minutes ago, silverbird1100 said:

Doesn’t oil flow through it the same regardless? Like a radiator without a thermostat?

 

Don't try to make sense of his ramblings.  The next thing you know you wake up in the ER, with blood dripping from your ear, and a nurse asking, "What were you thinking about??"

 

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Org. idiots have spoken. 

 

Increased air intake tamps will result in higher cylinder head temps/ exhaust gases temps.  Simply more heat dumped into coolant and oil. Undersides of pistons are cooled by oil, oil goes thru cylinder head, etc.

 

It is difficult to have rational discussion when some lacks basic understanding of performance internal combustion engine, and refuse to learn anything.

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Also difficult to have a rational conversation with an irrational person.

 

There is no doubt that directing the air to the cooler instead of the intake will lower the oil temp, it's just not needed.

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8 minutes ago, superhawk996 said:

Also difficult to have a rational conversation with an irrational person.

 

There is no doubt that directing the air to the cooler instead of the intake will lower the oil temp, it's just not needed.

 

He's probably arguing with himself as usual, and just not understanding the posts made by others.  Pretty much all of the "you're stupid" posts he's directed at everyone included a misunderstanding mixed with the overwhelming need to be 'right" and prove something.  Even when nobody is wrong or even making an argument, he needs to make sure someone is.

 

Lower intake air temp helps keep oil, metal, and water cooler; lower oil temp helps the others keep cooler, etc.  So it's what you said, and energy is energy.  No matter where you are exchanging it, the net heat still has to be removed somewhere.  Compromises.

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29 minutes ago, SwampNut said:

 Pretty much all of o it's what you said, and energy is energy.  No matter where you are exchanging it, the net heat still has to be removed somewhere.  Compromises.

Directing airflow at the expense of air intake to the oil cooler is like fixing self- inflicted issues. Retarded.

It is absolutely paramount to the operation of internal combustion engine to keep intake temp as low as possible. I'm not talking about trip to North Pole, normal riding conditions.

 

Rule of the thumb every increase of intake temps by 20 f degrees increases engine octane requirements by 1 point. Sure, ecu can deal with that by retarding timing but that by itself  increases exhaust temps- more heat dumped into coolant and air.

So, you are potentially shooting yourself in the foot twice. Lol. Hence my previous comments.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, tomek said:

Directing airflow at the expense of air intake to the oil cooler is like fixing self- inflicted issues. Retarded.

It is absolutely paramount to the operation of internal combustion engine to keep intake temp as low as possible. I'm not talking about trip to North Pole, normal riding conditions.

 

Rule of the thumb every increase of intake temps by 20 f degrees increases engine octane requirements by 1 point. Sure, ecu can deal with that by retarding timing but that by itself  increases exhaust temps- more heat dumped into coolant and air.

So, you are potentially shooting yourself in the foot twice. Lol. Hence my previous comments.

How do the carbed birds get air?  Do they have an inle

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The carbed Birds don't have ram air, they manage to survive.

I made a hot air intake for my first Explorer and it gained MPG and power, and survived towing a boat to AZ and back in hot weather.

'Till around the mid 90's thermostatically controlled heated air intakes were pretty common.

Damn near every boat engine, even with turbos or blowers, breathe the hot air in the bilge.

 

But yea, CoLd AiR iS pArAmOuNt!!!

 

52 minutes ago, tomek said:

It is absolutely paramount to the operation of internal combustion engine to keep intake temp as low as possible.

 

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1 minute ago, silverbird1100 said:

Sorry about that^
 

How do carbed birds get their air? Wouldn’t it be the same way as removing the ram air ducts?

They don't have ram air, and I believe you are correct.  Except that the carbs don't have any way to adjust themselves for temperature so your bike should have an additional advantage.

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They don't have "ram" air, but pretty sure they have nozzles that reach into the fairing holes, no?  I don't think I've every seen a naked carb bird.

 

But otherwise, I assume that in one of the ignored messages above Tomek proved why all boat engines are destroyed shortly after warmup, on every boat ever made?  Dude's never been wrong, so be careful.

 

Back to the OP, I think the best answer is just to not fuck with it.  I can see no good coming of it, and probably no bad, so net zero.

 

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6 hours ago, SwampNut said:

I tried image searching, here's a fun result:

 

image.png

 

 

 

 

Do these snorkels go nowhere on the carb models?  

 

s-l500.jpg

Pretty sure they just reach over the frame into an open space and aren't connected to ducts or air inlets.

 

And the Professional hasn't spoken yet on why boats, carbed bikes, or cars intentionally designed with hot air intakes connected to the exhaust manifold managed to survive more than 5 minutes.  I assume he's conjuring up some kinda super senseless babble that will be irrefutable proof.

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2 hours ago, silverbird1100 said:

so those whole thread is probably stupid

 

Meh, meandering threads about mechanical things is a fun part of life.

 

26 minutes ago, superhawk996 said:

I think the oil cooler is mounted differently on carb vs FI bikes, maybe because of the ram air being in the way.

 

Probably, because I see an oil cooler air duct piece for the carb bikes, but not the FI bikes (with minimal, casual search for parts).

 

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1 hour ago, silverbird1100 said:

Oh well, but I do maintain that is the primary reason carbed ones run cooler  is the holes cool the oil cooler 

Very unlikely.  Most of the heat issues with Birds is when stopped or moving slow and in those conditions there's little heat being put into the oil and the cooler is doing little or nothing since it doesn't have air flow.  The oil temp will have minimal impact on coolant temp unless the cooling system is loaded to capacity which is very unlikely to happen, you'd have to be running really hard in very high ambient temp.

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