7.3 Ford School Me Up

[rockmeupto125]

I'll be talking to this fellow tomorrow.  What should I be asking him?   Don't know nuthin' 'bout no seven threes...or 2001 Fords.

 

https://utica.craigslist.org/cto/d/brookfield-2001-f250-diesel/7227008311.html

 

In a short text exchange he claims 18mpg, never had a tuner, does have a leveling kit, and he doesn't know what gears are in it.

[superhawk996]

Never had a tuner implies he's owned it since new.  Probably not since he didn't state that so he really can't know that it's never had a tuner.  Not a huge deal, the 7.3 isn't overly sensitive to tunes.  There's no way to know if it's had a flash type tuner in the past, but the plug in tuners require cutting the ECU box.  It's a black plastic box just forward of the parking brake pedal, if it's cut it'll be fairly obvious.  Possibly the worst is if it has a flash because you can't remove it without having that tuner.  If it's fairly doggy off the line and then builds power it's probably stock, if it gets up quickly it's tuned.  A stocker will have quite a bit more lag than your 6.4 in stock trim.

 

Important questions, and things to check yourself: Does it cold start without issues and is there any smoking hot or cold?  Why the new bed?  I assume an accident, but maybe just work duty damage.  If accident ask/check the frame...you probably already knew that.

 

Other questions: Have the injectors or high pressure oil pump (AKA HPOP) been replaced?  It's at about the miles where they might have been, or may need to soon depending on useage and maintenance.

What kind of oil and filter do you use?  Ideally Motorcraft filter or one of the high end ones, and not Fram or no-name.  Most of the diesel rated oils are good enough, but if he's using some generic crap it could be an issue.

Has the transmission or torque converter been rebuilt?  Kinda like the injectors and HPOP, could be about due or already done.

 

My 2001 Excursion has 429k on what appear to be factory injectors and trans.  The #8 injector has been replaced, that one is commonly misdiagnosed as being defective.  The HPOP was also replaced, also commonly misdiagnosed, but with the miles it might have been worn out.  My injectors are worn out, but I was able to shim them up so that it cold starts despite their wear.  Ideally they'd be rebuilt/replaced but I didn't want to spend the time & $.

 

Check the coolant for oiliness, that would indicate oil cooler or injector cups being bad.  Cups let fuel in, cooler lets oil in, sometimes it's hard to tell which fluid it is.  Check the fuel filter for black fuel, that would indicate injector O rings being bad.  With the engine idling pull the oil fill cap to check blow-by, there should be nearly none.  One of the common checks is to put the cap on it upside down to see if it tries to blow off or stays.

 

The miles could be just the beginning of its life or the end depending on use and maintenance.  I'll PM you my number in case you want to chat while you're there.  I'll be on the road in the early morning then in the desert so no guarantees I'll get the call, but leave a message or text and I'll get back when I can.

 

Did your truck crap out or just looking to add a truck with a real engine?  🙂

[rockmeupto125]

Around here, rust is a very real issue, so a bed replacement doesn't raise an eyebrow.

 

Three times now the 6.4 has had a no start, twice whileheaded to work. It has a lot of electronic jimcrackery i can't work with because i cant get the software. So I'm not trusting it a lot right now. I was thinking the 7.3 might be a little more use friendly for repairs and maybe just not shut off while I'm driving it. Plus, i want a 4wd.

[XXitanium]

Is the no-start and turning over, or is it turning the key no click at the solenoid?

 

My 2001 started funny business about 230k with the electrical switch, bottom of the steering column, losing connection. I found that if I lifted gently on the steering wheel, that is was enough to let the electrons do their business.

 

...also, mine was really bad on GPR flow plug relay - solenoids. There is a cheap fix.  It's a big-ass (not the brand name) contactor the forum guys have found. I was putting in the puny girly ones about every 18 months. Easy job, but irritating. 

 

After I put in big momma, never messed with it again.

 

...no.2 is still driving my old 7.3L and smiling. Ckise to 300k. We've had it since120k.

Edited November 11, 2020 by XXitanium
Spell chx is kickn' my ass

[XXitanium]

Stancor relay.

 

https://www.thedieselstop.com/threads/hard-start-cold.597457/

 

"Diesel-O-Rings has the Stancor relays. Also available from Mouser and other electronics supply houses, but more $$.

http://www.dieselorings.com/1999-20...r-586-902-monster-glow-plug-relay.htmlhttp://

At zero out side, the block heater is your friend. You can also jumper across the big lugs on the GPR to manually activate the GP's."

 

https://www.thedieselstop.com/threads/glow-plug-relay-intl-ford-stancor-delphi-allliant.223430/page-2

 

 

[XXitanium]

55 minutes ago, rockmeupto125 said:

Around here, rust is a very real issue, so a bed replacement doesn't raise an eyebrow. 

They are asking pretty much twice that up here for rust buckets.

[XXitanium]

I see the Stancor only lasted 7 years...  ...still not short enough time frame to get on my radar.

[rockmeupto125]

Bill, the 6.4 is a whole different ball game.  Wild temps in the EGT sensors can cause a "STOP SAFELY NOW" message followed by the engine shutting off.  To me, this is a big no-no.  Just shutting the engine off for a sensor failure is lawsuit material.  Cut the power, dingdingdingflashylights yes, but shutting the engine off is a dick move.

 

2008 F350 6.4 with DPF delete, EGR delete, and mild tune.  Catalyst retained.

 

First time: Start fine, drive a mile and stop, engine shuts off.  SSN message, everything seems to work except the starter.  Relays click, lights strong, etc.  Manage to get snag a ride to work on time, walk back to the truck in the morning, starts like nothing happened.  Codes are engine management for regen (defeated but can't stop the occasional message) and P200E, which sets for catalyst temp (EGT2)>830C or post catalyst temp (EGT3)>950C.  EGT3 is still stuck in the DPF laying in my driveway, instead there is a resistor wired in line to supposedly make the ECM think the sensor is in place.

 

Second time: Start up, pull around the corner, maybe 15mph, SSN message and engine dies.  Fires up after maybe 5 seconds crank, no code, we go on our merry way.

 

Third time: Late for work, get all my shit in the truck, cranks but won't start. SSN message on.  I used the truck 7 hours before, maybe it was on when I stopped, I don't know. Lights work, spins over strong, cranked two separate times.  Moved all the shit to the XX and went to work.

 

Fourth time: Got home from work 15 hours later, SSN message, P200E, cleared, won't crank.  Went to bed, got up 4 hours later, truck fires like nothing happened.  Get in in the driveway so I can crawl underneath.  Reset all the EGT connectors.  Pulled my cheater cable out and tested it, ohms like it's supposed to so put it back in. 

 

I hate throwing parts at something, but a new #2 EGT sensor for the cat is cheaper than taking it to the dealer for a scan. But that doesn't explain the no start.  Supposedly it resets after an hour and will restart once it has shut down.  That actually only happened once.

 

I'm in the process of evaluating my vehicles and trying to do some long term planning.  I need vehicles that I can repair with relatively inexpensive and readily available parts, thinking after I retire and can't spend $1500 every time whatever I'm driving belches.  That's why the 7.3 caught my eye, and I wondered if they were relatively easy fixers without $40k worth of engine computers.  Just mental masterbation while I try to figure out my latest SNAFU.

 

 

 

[XXitanium]

It shuts off while you are in motion? Wow.

 

...the 7.3L has e great reputation. People I know who've owned them refer to them as million mile engines. 

 

People who've done EGR delete and strengthened head bolts on the 6.4s seem to have had good luck. It's my understanding that the Fird went from 5 bolts per cylinder down to 4.

 

The diesel stop forum is a great resource and I consider them ver DIY friendly.

 

Also FTE forum is pretty good. I've gotten warnings for what I consider minor shit though.

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum169/

 

 

[SwampNut]

Fuck, turning off a vehicle while rolling, especially one that might be loaded in a way to make it undriveable without power steering and brakes, seems like a huge liability.

 

This is where I'd normally ask about checking the spark plugs and carburetor.

 

[Furbird]

Buy it, LS swap it, done 🤣

[SwampNut]

43 minutes ago, Furbird said:

Buy it, LS swap it, done 🤣

 

Then sell the vehicle with the LS so you can keep the more useful diesel engine?  I like it.

 

[rockmeupto125]

Yeah, I like the engine, but it's the sum of its parts.  That fuel pump lets go, it cost me more than I have in the truck.  It will be instant parts.

 

Hence the 7.3 interest.

[superhawk996]

The 7.3 will never be as great as a good running 6.0 or 6.4, nor as shitty as a 6.0 or 6.4 that's not running great.  All 3 can be problematic, but the 7.3 is kinda like the carbureted small block V-8 comparatively.

[XXitanium]

I tried looking up two versions of replacing the fuel pump.

 

Cab off.

 

Cab on.

 

The guys that do a lot of it swear by cab-off. You need a lift, but lots easier to work.

[XXitanium]

YouTube was crashed yesterday.

[XXitanium]

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1407685-cab-off-repair-hpfp.html

 

[IcePrick]

A scanner that works well with the older OBD systems would be very helpful.  ForScan would be the best to run on it.

 

I second the recommendation for Ford Truck Enthusiasts website, as well as Diesel O-Rings.  But RiffRaff Diesel has been incredible for everything I've needed - good prices and honesty.  

 

ForScan won't work on the 6.4? 

[rockmeupto125]

It seems most of the upmarket scan tools have a problem with the later model Fords.  The Autoenginuity scanner seems to have the best results with the Super Duty add-on package and do a lot but not all of the sensor testing and bi-directional signaling to check individual components.  I've put off that purchase for a while.  RiffRaff has it for about $400 shipped.

[IcePrick]

Have you tried ForScan?  It's free, just need a connector.  I use a hardwire to USB on my laptop, seems the most reliable.  You should at least be able to see all the codes and history on a 6.4, probably all the modules though you may not be able to alter the as-built.

[XXitanium]

Yeah, why so many modules? They're tucked all over. I did my own GEM after it drowned. Water came in through rust around the windshield, my theory, I could see the water Mark's inside it.

 

...saved about $700 doing it myself.  It took a longer ti research and find the part.

 

I got the board in the upper console redone and replaced that myself as well.

[XXitanium]

I know this isn't a solution, but thought it was related and interesting.

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1020210988391217&id=100012069758196

 

[superhawk996]

I think the best Ford Diesel is a properly bulletproofed 6.0.  Second best is a 7.3.  When the seller says "bulletproofed by professionals" instead of naming the shop I assume it's one of the many half assed bullet proofing jobs.  "Everything works as far as I know" is another red flag.

[XXitanium]

...I missed this one at $16K

 

https://jalopnik.com/someone-just-scored-one-of-the-most-epic-ford-super-dut-1845791905

 

[superhawk996]

I had a brief opportunity to score a very similar gem, probably in better condition, for only $6k.  By the time I figured out where to get the $, a few hours, it was gone.