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blackhawkxx

Antifreeze

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I know that over the years we have talked about using non Honda antifreeze but.....  The only reasons that I know of to use the Honda stuff is no silica and being safe for aluminum.  Prestone antifreeze is $10 something per gallon which makes 2 gallons and would save a good bit when doing multiple bikes.  It says that it is safe for any car or light truck which would include Honda.  I have used Honda car antifreeze with no harm in the past.  Have anyone here been using non Honda brand juice?  Thoughts?

 

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Evans waterless coolant.  Initial changeover takes some work, but it’s good stuff.

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I recently did some reading about coolants & bikes.  Lots of people using Prestone, many with several years & miles on it, and not one issue I could find.  My understanding is that the long life stuff is silica free and only the older stuff had it, but not positive.

 

Most generic coolants say "safe for all cars & light trucks" and/or "mixes with any color coolant" on them and it's sorta true, but not really.

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I need some coolant for my Jeep (and a new radiator soon, that's another discussion).  It some special stuff that's kind of fuschia-purple.  Then there's the stuff that claims to work with anything.  Hmm.

 

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I would spend the $ and keep with the factory stuff.  Most likely you can get the non-branded version of it at a parts store, they've had every coolant type I've looked for; Mercedes, Toyota, etc.  There are so many different flavors these days, kinda like ATF.

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7 minutes ago, superhawk996 said:

There are so many different flavors these days

 

So taste it, you're saying?

 

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34 minutes ago, SwampNut said:

 

So taste it, you're saying?

 

Just last week I did.  Motor running 2500 rpm, manual fan, hood open, big puke of antifreeze hits fan with me being right there.  I could taste that stuff the rest of the day. 

 

6 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

I recently did some reading about coolants & bikes.  Lots of people using Prestone, many with several years & miles on it, and not one issue I could find.  My understanding is that the long life stuff is silica free and only the older stuff had it, but not positive.

 

Most generic coolants say "safe for all cars & light trucks" and/or "mixes with any color coolant" on them and it's sorta true, but not really.

My Ford manuals say to use Ford chemicals but I don't in most cases except for tranny fluid.  I can't help to think that they are just protecting there product income as all manufacturers do.

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7 minutes ago, blackhawkxx said:

My Ford manuals say to use Ford chemicals but I don't in most cases except for tranny fluid.  I can't help to think that they are just protecting there product income as all manufacturers do.

For the most part, yes.  But sometimes there's actually a good reason to use their product, or at the least something that meets their specs.  Some parts really do need 'special' fluids.

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Needs to be silicate free and safe for aluminum.

 

"

Choosing motorcycle engine coolant

The problem: Sometimes, even a straightforward thing like adding or changing coolant becomes fraught with potential problems. 
Case in point: 
Choosing a motorcycle coolant should be straightforward. Motorcycle engines are made of aluminium. It stands to reason that if we chose a name brand coolant that featured compatibility with aluminium as well as 7 or 8 other metals, we'd be safe, right?
Well it turns out that we'd be wrong. At least for Honda motorcycles. Coolants do more than prevent freezing and protect from overheating. They also protect from corrosion. Traditional automotive coolant contains silicates as part of its anti-corrosive additive mix. It appears that silicates (abrasive in nature) damage the Honda water-pump seals. There have been a spate of Honda water-pump failures that typically occur within one year of having replaced the OEM coolant with silicate-based automotive coolant.
What's the solution?
The recommended coolant, at least for Honda motorcycles, is the newer-generation non-silicate-based coolant. I suspect that non-silicate coolant would be gentler on other brand motorcycles as well.
This is sometimes an inconvenience for someone not living reasonably close to a Honda bike dealership. In addition, OEM motorcycle dealer pricing tends to be a little higher. After more research, I ended up buying Honda coolant from my local Honda car dealership. This is not only convenient, but probably a little cheaper to boot! 
The product name is Type 2 coolant (as opposed toType 1 that is silicate-based) and comes in a 4 litre jug. It's a long-life coolant, comes pre-mixed, is greening in color, and contains no silicates. I found the price reasonable and that's what I put in. Apparently it is also available in concentrated form. While it may be cheaper in concentrated form, I found the convenience of the pre-mix version to more than make up for any possible difference in price. 
There are other long-life coolants out there that contain no silicates. It seems that Dexcool (GM) has a checkered history and may be involved in several class action suits. Dexcool has been linked to possibly serious problems, sometimes turning into a jelly-like sludge. It has also been linked to failed intake manifold gaskets. 
There are enough well-publicized doubts aboutDexcool in its applicability for automotive applications that I’d be wary of using it in my motorcycle's engine. 
Considerations:
Just a heads up re switching to a non-silicate (ie organic-based) coolant.
If you've been running regular silicate-based coolant, you want to ensure a complete flush ie get it all out.

It seems that silicate and non-silicate-based coolants don't mix well. In fact, they're considered non-compatible. It appears that even a small cross-contamination will impact protection.
From what I've gathered, two things happen.

  • the coolant performance is deemed to revert back to the lowest one ie
    a long-life coolant is deemed to revert back to normal life ie 1 or 2 yrs.
  • there seems to be chemical incompatibility between the two, resulting
    in corrosion inhibitors falling out of suspension. It's believed that the acids in the organic non-silicate coolants will tend to cause residual leftover silicates to fall out ofsuspension. Apparently, this will affect corrosion protection and possibly add (how much I don't know) to silicate-caused negative results.

re type of water to use:
Regular, mineral-rich tap water encourages scale build-up. Minerals tend to deposit as scale and do so more easily at high temperatures. This scale will tend to accumulate at some hot spots. It decreases heat transfer (ie is insulating) and cuts down on the cooling effectiveness. 
In addition, there are the possible chemical reactions of chlorine (common in tap water) and sodium to create chloride salts. Jeff Bertrand (contributor to Motorcycle Consumer News and fellow lister) cautions that, in his experience, this can often result in a highly corrosive soup. Not a pretty picture! 
Though this is a normal chemical reaction of chlorine and sodium, I haven't researched this enough to determine to what extent this occurs nor what concentrations are likely to produce negligeable or more significant effects. What I do know is that preventing the formation of this corrosive soup requires a very simple and inexpensive product that is available at every drugstore: distilled water. A four litre jug (approx $2) of distilled water is probably enough to fully flush out a cooling system. 
So using distilled water is critical for both flushing and mixing. 

Copyright 
Bruno Valeri 2003-2008

hopefully this helps
Note: I add content to this website regularly

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No silicates

Aluminum safe

Anti'corrosion

Distilled water

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2 hours ago, XXitanium said:

No silicates

Aluminum safe

Anti'corrosion

Distilled water

Since the links are old, I'm not sure if they still apply.  There is aluminum in every engine that I can think of so that shouldn't be a problem.  All should protect from corrosion.  Looking on a Prestone bottle and website, it says nothing about silicates.  Many have replaced silicates with phosphates.  I e-mailed them and will see what they have to say.

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What about oil? What do you guys run? I've been running Super Tech 0-20, and my mileage has gotten about 12-13% better. Bike runs smoother, and is quicker too. Might run about 5 or 10 degrees warmer though.

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32 minutes ago, XXBirdSlapper said:

What about oil? What do you guys run? I've been running Super Tech 0-20, and my mileage has gotten about 12-13% better. Bike runs smoother, and is quicker too. Might run about 5 or 10 degrees warmer though.

Super Tech now offers 0-16 so you're missing out on some unfound efficiency with that molasses.

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1 hour ago, blackhawkxx said:

Since the links are old, I'm not sure if they still apply.

That was my first thought, good catch.

 

When I changed the coolant on my SuperHawk I wanted to be safe so I used Honda stuff from the dealer and the water pump started weeping.  It kept weeping 'till I'd replaced at least a quart of it with distilled water top-offs.

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...and it just magically quit?

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Yup.  The more water I put in the less it leaked, then it stopped.

 

When I bought the stuff I was suspect of it, it's pre-mixed but seemed really thick & slippery like pure coolant.  My theory is that it was so slick it was able to pass through the seal.  Unless they fucked up on the mix I don't know why it did that, but thousands of miles later it was still leak free.  When I first changed the coolant it was coating my right boot while riding.  From recollection it never leaked with the engine off hot or cold, only while running and appeared to be worse at higher RPM.

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Water pump seals can act strangely.  Some will leak a little for a really long time without getting bad, some will seem perfect then dump the coolant overnight.  The pump on our Liberty started leaking the day before we were leaving AZ, it didn't leak when hot so I chanced the 370 mile return.  It didn't seem to leak on the way and hours after returning there was still nothing on the ground.  Next morning there was a small stream down the driveway.  The pump in my van had no obvious leak and dumped a huge amount over night.

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I don't remember any.

 

The first water cooled bike I remember having was a VF1000R and it got Fleetguard low silicate HD truck coolant because it was free from work, along with the 15-40 oil.

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13 hours ago, XXBirdSlapper said:

What about oil? What do you guys run?

 

Crisco Butter Flavor, of course, do you still have the old stinky exhaust smell instead of great popcorn smell?

 

 

 

IMG_0867.jpg

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Received a reply from Prestone.  I may go ahead and use it.

 

Good Morning Rich,

 

Both of those products are silicate free.  Please let me know if you require anything further.

 

Sincerely,

 

Aaron Jones

Prestone Consumer Relations Representative

Phone: 203-731-8191

cid:image001.png@01CDC249.2F757380

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I`ve used whatever what cheapest at wallymart. No cooling system failure in last 200k + miles.

 

BTW, waterwetter plus, well, water resulted with leaking water pump on my RIP track only 2004 R1. PITA to replace since water pump and oil pump are one piece that is located inside of oil pan. I just flipped bike upside down with straps and fork lift. I shit you not. 

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27 minutes ago, tomek said:

PITA to replace since water pump and oil pump are one piece that is located inside of oil pan.

Just WOW!  That sounds like German engineering. 

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34 minutes ago, blackhawkxx said:

Just WOW!  That sounds like German engineering. 

 

Wait a minute..... we don’t have to tipurn our jap bikes sideways, do we? I hate people who stereotype.

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