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Dotetcher

De-linking brakes

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How. How much. I've thrown in the towel on trying to fix my rear caliper binding issue. So onto delinking. If this is expensive I'm just going to sell it as is it part it out. Little frustrated.

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I am 68 and I still ride my 01 Bird. but I am old school, I never trusted the linked braking system, I would rather rely on my own skill to control the brakes, I disabled mine over 15 years ago.

no regrets. your rear caliper needs to come off and be disassembled and visually inspected, my guess is there are signs of corrosion accumulation in the lowest part of the caliper ( as it is mounted on the bike) depending on the amount of damage and with the proper tools, and skill this can be cleaned up, and be rebuilt.successfully.  the backup plan is to find one in a motorcycle salvage yard that is rebuildable.  unfortunately Dot 3 brake fluid draws moisture, which will settle in the lowest points in the system, I have plenty of experience with this because all C3 Corvettes came stock with  aluminum  calipers, as did Goldwings,  and everybody felt obligated to wash there bikes with pressure washer. (bad Idea)

There is no cheap fix for this, take your time, ask questions I am the old fat guy

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I believe the caliber itself is fine. When I release the pressure from the secondary master cylinder the rear caliper releases. So I think that delinking the brakes will just solve all my problems. I’m an old not quite so fat guy, and have put probably close to 160,000 miles on the 2-97’s I’ve owned.  I’m pretty familiar with the bike.

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You can't give up now as far as selling it.  It can only be so many things and sometimes it just takes a fresh eye.  De-link if yo have to but this is something that can be fixed.

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Did you locate a fluid return passage in the master cylinder?

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11 hours ago, XXBirdSlapper said:

Did you locate a fluid return passage in the master cylinder?

 

image.jpg

 

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14 hours ago, srideaux said:

I am 68 and I still ride my 01 Bird. but I am old school, I never trusted the linked braking system, I would rather rely on my own skill to control the brakes, I disabled mine over 15 years ago.

 

Different strokes and all that jazz, but when I got the RS, I didn’t realize how much I liked the linked system.  I use the front brake almost exclusively, and without linked braking, stopping the RS isn’t as smooth.  That little bit of rear brake makes a huge difference...makes an emergency deceleration feel more controlled.  Maybe it’s not workable with ABS monitoring each brake circuit, but I’m really having to learn to use the rear brake every time because the XX spoiled me.

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3 hours ago, Dotetcher said:

Yup. Posted a picture of a nice clean one in the caliper thread.

 

I'm not sure what I'm seeing. That looks like the outside of the assembly?

 

...passages would be really small holes inside the assembly, no? Sorry for being thick. I've never had to touch mine, y e t....

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XX has old school conventional 43 mm fork. They are pretty flexible, even on 450 pounds old 600 front axle would move 20 mm backwards under maximum breaking. Linked brakes help reduce this problem.

 

There is absolutely nothing to gain on street bike by de-linking. My vfr1200 linked brakes have way less rear bias, and consequently the thing goes on its nose under heavy braking. I prefer XX set up unless I`m in full quick corner entry mode. 

 

Increased front tire load is desired on race bike for number of reasons, the rear tire is almost off the ground anyway, but for street riding I prefer  bike staying  flat during corner entry, and reduced load on my wrists.     

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2 hours ago, tomek said:

XX has old school conventional 43 mm fork. They are pretty flexible, even on 450 pounds old 600 front axle would move 20 mm backwards under maximum breaking. Linked brakes help reduce this problem.

...if you're not smart enough to use the rear brake.

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I left my two cents over in the other thread.  However, I would like to say that I believe the rear bias on the linked BB brakes is different between carbed and FI versions.  One of my 99's was an early model (VIN ending in 0300's), and the back wheel would chirp when hard on the front brake lever.  The other (VIN in the 0900's) never had that problem.  I figure Honda had some left-over proportional valves from the 98 models, and just used them on the early 99's.  Any one needing a new one would just get the improved version.

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Makes me wanna do a hard front brake test on my 'new' '97 to see what it does.  I haven't had much chance to ride it so I haven't really put it through the paces.

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Iirc front fork master cylinder operates two pistons of rear brake caliper on carb bikes vs. one piston on fi bikes.

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2 hours ago, jon haney said:

I left my two cents over in the other thread.  However, I would like to say that I believe the rear bias on the linked BB brakes is different between carbed and FI versions.  One of my 99's was an early model (VIN ending in 0300's), and the back wheel would chirp when hard on the front brake lever.  The other (VIN in the 0900's) never had that problem.  I figure Honda had some left-over proportional valves from the 98 models, and just used them on the early 99's.  Any one needing a new one would just get the improved version.

I have had my XX since 97 and have never chirped the rear using the front but there is always a lot of variables.  How the bike is set up, tires, weight of rider, road, etc. can all make a difference.

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My 2000 bird doesn't chirp on a hard break grab.

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6 hours ago, tomek said:

Iirc front fork master cylinder operates two pistons of rear brake caliper on carb bikes vs. one piston on fi bikes.

On my '97 the rear brake master is connected near the center of the caliper so I assume it's only using the center piston.  My '01 is de-linked and the master has two hoses to the caliper to use all pistons, no clue how it was originally.  I guess I could try to find it in the manual, but I'm feeling lazy.

Edited by superhawk996

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19 hours ago, tomek said:

Iirc front fork master cylinder operates two pistons of rear brake caliper on carb bikes vs. one piston on fi bikes.

If that's true, it would be a major difference in braking force.

What's interesting to me is that the front fork master (secondary master) gets pushed harder the harder you squeeze the front lever.  I would assume this puts more pressure to the rear caliper.  Of course, this seems backwards, since the more you apply the front brakes, the less weight on the rear, and the easier it would try to lock the rear.  If they did switch from 2 pistons to one on the FI bikes, it would still take a major change to the proportioning valve.  ABS seems less complicated now, and infinitely better.

 

To clarify my experience, I only chirped the rear tire when I was at the track, approaching the downhill hairpin turn, which is at the end of the back straight.  About 105-110 mph.

Edited by jon haney

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Would love to know the engineering behind the LBS system.

How do they compensate for different weight riders/passengers/gear?

What about different tires/traction conditions?

What about shimming the rear shock, which changes weight bias?

 

I'm amazed the system works as well as it does.

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Even in conventional braking system you can get the rear tire to bounce and/or  swimg to the side when braking really, really hard. Slipper clutch helps, and playing with shock's rebound. You can get things to stay calm till the grip of tire and track conditions change, then you start over again.

 

My track R1 with YEC ecu ( yec is yamaha's hrc) is the first bike where I can truly forget about what rear is doing on the entry.

It is active system, it is using fly by wire throttle control, wheel speed sensors and three axis gyro control unit to keep engine braking under control. 

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Yeah, I could be taking enough weight off the rear for that to happen, given the downhill.  I wonder why it didn't happen on the first Bird?  They were set-up almost identical.  My first Bird was de-linked before I got the second, and perhaps I was just more confident.  The first Bird probably would have started doing it, if I had left it linked.

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