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tomek

Chain reaction

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On 1/30/2019 at 11:34 AM, CBR-RR-XX-CESS said:

Ok fess up, someone drained and forgot to fill.

LOL, checking oil level was my first reaction after the sudden death. BTW, race triple whatever ester oil. It was Maxima or Motul, don`t remember. They do give couple dyno proven extra HP.

 

So yea, I was puzzled after she blew up, it is not suppose to happen to Japanese I4, or 16 R1. It has crossplane crankshaft and titanium rods if you are not familiar with this motor.

The engine had only 500 track miles since was partially disassembled for top end performance modes. Everything look fine. My guess is small piece of metal got between one of sprockets and the chain, and damaged the chain. I did not find any damage on sprockets thought ,,,, 

 

The engine needed crankshaft, chain, all bearings of course, rod and piston with rings. About 1400 bucks in parts and  my two full Saturdays. I hate wrenching when it is nice outside. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Are you sure the destruction of that journal didn't produce shrapnel that damaged the chain, and subsequently the guides?

 That bearing didn't just spin, it looks totally gone.

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There's a lot more gone than just the bearing, there's a shit ton of rod and/or crank gone too.  With the evident heat that went on that thing shoulda been crying for a while.

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Superhawk, why dont you GTFO from my thread. You are self trained cuban specialist in fixing 30-40 years old junk, and know dick about motorcycle engines , especially with titanium rods. I got you of ignore for couple of seconds, and sure enough,,,,,, Just GTFO. please.

Edited by tomek

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Interesting that the only person who said 'blocked oil pump inlet' is the only one being attacked and said to not know dick about engines.  I thought you were actually asking for help in diagnosing it, that's why I chimed in.  I didn't think your insanity ran so deep as to be pissed for that.

 

 It doesn't take being a self trained Cuban specialist to see the colors and know that it took lots of heat and time to make that happen.  Or to see the huge gap between the rod & crank and know that lots of metal was removed, not just the bearing.  Or to know that it takes more than two seconds for a rod/crank interface to go from perfect to that.  Or to understand that if no other bearings were damaged it probably wasn't generalized oil starvation that caused it.

 

You can't deal with facts, especially from Cubans, you've made that very clear for a long time, but I thought it might be different when talking about an engine vs. the political and other bullshit.  Keep me on ignore, it's better for everyone.  If I'm on ignore I can stay in your thread without feeling bad that my input will bother you, so please "ignore", or just man the fuck up and deal with it.

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5 hours ago, tomek said:

Superhawk, why dont you GTFO from my thread. You are self trained cuban specialist in fixing 30-40 years old junk, and know dick about motorcycle engines , especially with titanium rods. I got you of ignore for couple of seconds, and sure enough,,,,,, Just GTFO. please.

 

LOL!  There's not one thread where you don't show that you're just nuts, is there?  I had mostly ignored this thread, and this morning I used the "next thread" button that I never do, and saw this idiocy.  I'll never use that button again.

 

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And this "motorcycle" thread was going so well. 😢

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4 hours ago, SwampNut said:

 

 I'll never use that button again.

 

Excellent , but before you go please tell me something about my mother.

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2 hours ago, tomek said:

Excellent , but before you go please tell me something about my mother.

She probably tried to raise a decent person, I don't blame her for you.

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 Oh, how polite you are . Suddenly.

 

I don`t wanna deal with you. I`ve tried. I`ve provided not much information about what happened, yet you came to far reaching conclusions without having a clue about this particular engine. It is the same situation every time when discussing mechanical matters with you. I feel I have to prove the earth is not flat over, and over again. 

 

Just please go away.  

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I didn't ask you to prove anything and I won't GTFO yet, but if you prove I'm just an ignorant idiot that only knows about 30-40 year old engines as you claimed I will GTFO of your present and future threads forever.  If you want to back your claims/insults start by acknowledging that I correctly guessed the clogged pick-up.  Then explain why I would need special knowledge about that particular engine to be able to conclude that there was excessive heat at that rod/crank for more than 2 seconds.  You explain how it is that the specialness of that engine makes it so that the crank journal didn't have to be heated to a ridiculous temperature make it change color like that.  Also explain why it had such thick rod bearings that the huge gap isn't more than just missing bearing material.

 

I'll give you some starting help in case you didn't know.  It takes around 600f to create that 'rainbow' so for the web to be heated to that temperature that far from the journal it would take a shit load more heat at the journal for enough time for that heat to travel into the web.  I don't know how hot the journal would have to be for the web to reach 600 in 2 seconds, but probably more than the metal could take without the journal melting considerably.

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4 minutes ago, SwampNut said:

IMG_0529.jpg

 

Love it!

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1 hour ago, superhawk996 said:

I didn't ask you to prove anything and I won't GTFO yet, but if you prove I'm just an ignorant idiot that only knows about 30-40 year old engines as you claimed I will GTFO of your present and future threads forever.  If you want to back your claims/insults start by acknowledging that I correctly guessed the clogged pick-up.  Then explain why I would need special knowledge about that particular engine to be able to conclude that there was excessive heat at that rod/crank for more than 2 seconds.  You explain how it is that the specialness of that engine makes it so that the crank journal didn't have to be heated to a ridiculous temperature make it change color like that.  Also explain why it had such thick rod bearings that the huge gap isn't more than just missing bearing material.

 

I'll give you some starting help in case you didn't know.  It takes around 600f to create that 'rainbow' so for the web to be heated to that temperature that far from the journal it would take a shit load more heat at the journal for enough time for that heat to travel into the web.  I don't know how hot the journal would have to be for the web to reach 600 in 2 seconds, but probably more than the metal could take without the journal melting considerably.

Please just go away. If someone does not wanna interact with you, why do you insist on being here ? 

 

BTW, the engine was at 13-14 k rpm WOT when it happened. Of course you know that couple of seconds is not enough to generate rainbow when bearing seized . You know it because you are shade tree wrench, and you just know those things.

 

Just go away. Please.

Edited by tomek

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On 2/1/2019 at 10:56 AM, superhawk996 said:

Interesting that the only person who said 'blocked oil pump inlet' is the only one being attacked and said to not know dick about engines.  I thought you were actually asking for help in diagnosing it, that's why I chimed in.  

If you bothered to read my early posts you would know I was not asking for help. Once again, the screen on oil pick up tube was  packed with fine shredded  and powdered plastic from chain guides. Simply there was not enough oil flow. And the cylinder 4 is a t the end of oil flow food chain.   Debris did not enter oil system at all.    

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18 minutes ago, tomek said:

Please just go away. If someone does not wanna interact with you, why do you insist on being here ? 

Partly to shed light on what happened, and because you insulted me for no good reason and I don't feel like leaving just for your comfort.  If you don't want to interact with me you're free to stop at any time.  You act like I broke into your house and tied you up; you have free will, use it.  Lots of people ignore you instead of telling you to GTFO, man up.

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2 minutes ago, tomek said:

And the cylinder 4 is a t the end of oil flow food chain.

Pretty sure I mentioned that as a possible reason that particular bearing was the first damage spot.

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The point is you don't bother to read carefully people's posts , you assume what they did not say, and so on. And you have done it many times to me especially in the garage . I don't wanna spend time correcting you. That's why I don't wanna deal with you. It did not happen overnight.

 

Btw, this engine spun bearing at 4000rpm.  Owner nursed it at 2500 rpm  for 150 miles to Salmon I'd, or to the nearest Uhaul.

 

No blueing on crankshaft.

 

 

 

 

 

IMG_20190202_124614297.jpg

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Rods look pretty decent, in mean no melted metal.

IMG_20190202_124805169.jpg

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Perhaps what you think you know it is no what really happened, and maybe reading other people's post carefully chould help. 

 

Have a nice Weekend.

Edited by tomek

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26 minutes ago, tomek said:

The point is you don't bother to read carefully people's posts , you assume what they did not say, and so on. And you have done it many times to me especially in the garage . I don't wanna spend time correcting you. That's why I don't wanna deal with you. It did not happen overnight.

 

Btw, this engine spun bearing at 4000rpm.  Owner nursed it at 2500 rpm  for 150 miles to Salmon I'd, or to the nearest Uhaul.

 

No blueing on crankshaft.

 

 

 

 

 

IMG_20190202_124614297.jpg

What did I fail to carefully read and what did I assume?

 

No bluing of the crank and no melted rod just as I'd expect from the description of what happened.  Should I have expected different for some reason?  It does seem like very minimal damage for being driven an additional 150 miles, but not impossible.

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Only one person here had a little bitchy hissy fit and threw out a bunch of racial shit and insults.  Hmmm.

 

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1 hour ago, superhawk996 said:

What did I fail to carefully read and what did I assume?

 

No bluing of the crank and no melted rod just as I'd expect from the description of what happened.  Should I have expected different for some reason?  It does seem like very minimal damage for being driven an additional 150 miles, but not impossible.

You did assume it could have not possibly happened in couple seconds in my R1. But perhaps facts that one engine was spinning 4000 rpm at part throttle, and other  14000rpm WOT was a factor ?. Also one with titanium rods, the other with steel rods ? 

 

Like I said if it was your first time it would not bother me, but you do it all the time. My patience have expired .

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On 1/31/2019 at 4:39 PM, tomek said:

I hate wrenching when it is nice outside. 

So it's true you are not in Chicago or Cook County. Nice work on the motor. Wish I had those abilities.

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2 hours ago, tomek said:

You did assume it could have not possibly happened in couple seconds in my R1. But perhaps facts that one engine was spinning 4000 rpm at part throttle, and other  14000rpm WOT was a factor ?. Also one with titanium rods, the other with steel rods ? 

 

Like I said if it was your first time it would not bother me, but you do it all the time. My patience have expired .

You apparently couldn't find anything I had failed to read properly; another unfounded accusation.

I was not making assumptions on the 2 second & heat thing, it's blatantly obvious that it happened at high revs; another one of your false accusations.  The Ti rods have different heat dissipation properties, but that will make very little difference to the heat that spread through the crank.

 

It doesn't matter if it happened at 14,000 or 14,000,000 RPM.  It takes time for the heat to travel from the journal to the web like it did.  Since you've got an education in physics I'm sure you could figure out the approximate time it took...but it'll require math.

 

You can keep digging for a "gotcha" but it's looking to be futile.  The more you try the more wrong you get, it would probably be in your best interest to let it go and just accept that you're wrong since you'll refuse to learn anything useful.

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