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redxxrdr

LiFepo battery for XX????

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Search shows links that are a few years old.

 

John and Eric touted Scorpion batteries, 500 cca. Others liked Shorai, but those list AH, not CCA.   

 

What have you You been happy with, the last few years?  

 

Im leaning toward the largest power , with the same package size as OEM.  Or is that overkill?

Thanks

Craig

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49 minutes ago, redxxrdr said:

 Or is that overkill?

 

By a huge amount.  Only brand I've used is Battery Tender.  When my current standard bike battery dies, I will buy another BT brand LiFePo4.

 

 

 

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I have had two Ballistic batteries and one Shorei.  Can't say one is better than the other, but the Ballistic was a better fit in the Bird, IMO.  What I recommend is to look up whatever size battery the manufacturer recommends for the bike and buy the next size bigger.  An 8-cell Ballistic will start my Bird fairly easy in warm weather.  When it gets cold, you may have to turn the key on and wait awhile before it will crank fast enough to start.  The 12-cell version will spin it like it's 24 volt.  The 18Ah Shorei is in my Triumph.  Now that I think about it, it did not seem to have as much oomph as the 12-cell Ballistic.  I believe amp/hours were about equal between them.  Hope this helps, and good luck.

Edited by jon haney

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I used the Battery Tender BTL14A240C and it worked great.  It's quite a bit smaller than stock and about 1/4 the weight.  Cranking speed was noticeably faster than with an AGM.  It got drained and left to completely discharge a few times and kept bouncing right back.  I accidentally sold it in a PWC when it was about 4 years old.  At that point the cranking speed sounded similar to a new AGM.  It was $120 on Amazon but when I looked again I couldn't find it there.

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That's what I put in the K1200RS.  It cranked like I'd plugged the battery cables into a wall outlet.

 

Interesting side note...this is actually GOOD for all the components involved.  Motors, contactors, and related items all last longer if you provide lots of voltage and they are spinning at their native speed.  When motors slow down due to voltage loss, current goes up.

 

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On 1/13/2019 at 12:05 PM, redxxrdr said:

Search shows links that are a few years old.

 

John and Eric touted Scorpion batteries, 500 cca. Others liked Shorai, but those list AH, not CCA.   

 

What have you You been happy with, the last few years?  

 

Im leaning toward the largest power , with the same package size as OEM.  Or is that overkill?

Thanks

Craig

I have a couple of the Scorpion batteries. One is the 525 or so CCA unit. Its slightly (maybe 2 inches) shorter than the stock battery. It weighs about 6lb less. Stock was about 10lb the scorpion is a bit under 4lb. Cranks like a beast. I rarely ever plug them in to battery tenders. I have a few times when I havent ridden a particular bike for a long time. They hold a charge much better than the agm batteries.

The other Scorpion I have is the recommended OEM replacement. Its still like 300 something cca so much more than OEM. Its about half the height of OEM which can be problematic but they do come with spacer blocks you can snap on the bottom so it will still reach the cables. This one weighs about 2lb.

I am a fan. The  525CCA I bought for the Speed Triple when its OEM started getting low. The Triumphs are problematic when your battery gets low. The ECU senses low voltage and shuts down to prevent damage to the sprag clutch/gear. I have since moved the bigger one to the Tiger since I run a lot more accessories on it and bought the smaller battery for the speed triple. I think I've had the 525 for 3 years or so and its still going strong.

 

The only downside IMO is the cost. They are spendy.

 

I got both of mine from batterystuff.com.

https://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/lithium-iron-batteries/sstx14h-fp.html

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Lots of people also use them in RVs.  If you believe their numbers, once properly configured, the "cost" is purely up front.  The total dollars for amps for time is actually much lower.  I have no idea how true that is for bike batteries, but suspect that it's actually cheaper to go LiFePo4 if your bike is a keeper.  I've only put lead-acid into things I'm not sure about keeping.  I suspect the trailer is a 1-3 year experiment to see which way we go next (bigger, or nothing).  It got two GC2 6V batteries.  Otherwise I would have made a different choice.

 

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Internet wisdom says to charge Lithium batteries with a specific charger, how is that different than the charging system of the vehicle?

Is a battery tender needed for long storage?

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Define "long" storage.  After a year or two, it might need a recharge, but not a full charge.  It depends on the temperature.

 

They need a specific charger if they are raw batteries.  The ones sold as vehicle batteries have a charge controller built in.

 

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Ballistic has shut down I just found out. There are some killer deals up here from my CDN supplier, I don't expect inventory to last more than a coupl e days. I 'd check around to see if the same is happening below the 49th. I'm offering 60% off through the dealer I work at. for example an EVX12 8 cell YTX12/YTX 14 replacement $118.95.

 

When or if you need to charge a LifePo4 battery they need to be balance charged. 

This is Ballistic current state of their website https://www.ballistic-batteries.com/main.php

So no warranty, but I'm getting one.

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10 minutes ago, partsman said:

When or if you need to charge a LifePo4 battery they need to be balance charged. 

 

They need to be charged every single time you start the vehicle, and I've never seen a vehicle-type Li-anything battery with balance leads.

 

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8 hours ago, partsman said:

When or if you need to charge a LifePo4 battery they need to be balance charged. 

How do you balance charge a series of cells in a sealed case?

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3 hours ago, partsman said:

/www.ballistic-batteries.com/charging.php

 

 

That doesn't answer the question.

 

Also I just realized that the LiFePo4 battery packs in my RC boat are much more powerful than a bike battery, and the motor draws more power than a starter motor.  Funny.

 

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9 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

How do you balance charge a series of cells in a sealed case?

With a special charger I bought from Ballistic.  It has two clips for positive and negative posts, plus a special plug for the balance part.  This special port is on the top of the battery in between the posts.  Mine had a black vinyl cap over it.

You were probably wanting the electrical engineer's explanation, but I'll have to leave that to someone who makes more money than me.

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22 minutes ago, jon haney said:

You were probably wanting the electrical engineer's explanation

 

I didn't, and believe Oscar didn't either.  Your answer is what I wanted.  MOST of these batteries do not have a balancing port, which was why I asked.  So you answered the real question.  The others claim to have internal circuits for protection and balancing.

 

The engineer answer:  Tiny loads are applied on the balance leads to keep individual cells from overcharging while the main circuit is supplying enough voltage to bring up the lowest cells. This is because in any series battery, some cells will always have a different state of charge.  RC batteries all come with a balancing lead which connects directly to each cell individually.

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LOL.  Thanks.  That explains why the pins on that plug are so tiny.

 

ALSO, pretty sure you make (a lot) more money than me. 

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My Scorpion Lithium has died!  Bought in 2013. 
Discovered that he cost has gone up in the past 5 years according to Battery Stuff, due to tariffs.
I paid 139.99 back in 2013 and now they want 169.99.
Looking at other options and the new supposed latest and greatest is the "Anti-Gravity Restart".

It has a built-in circuit that cuts power to the bike if the battery falls below 12.4 volts. If you forget and leave the key on or have accessories draining on it, the battery will automatically shut down all power output until you press a reset button to turn it back on while it still has plenty of power to start your bike. If your bike has its battery buried somewhere Anti-Gravity offers a key fob button to reset the battery. Cool option but not sure how practical? Cost is 199 for the Anti-gravity.

I have found most lithium batteries have a 3 year replacement warranty. I few have 5 year.

 

Edited: Battery Stuff offers the Anti-Gravity for $179.99 and free shipping and no tax.
Leaning in that direction. Haven't found any Lithium models under $144.99 for the YTX14S size.
For the 35.00 cost difference I will try the "Restart" feature since the Bird does not get out regularly.

360 CCA

 

Edited by John01XX

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5 hours ago, jon haney said:

With a special charger I bought from Ballistic.  It has two clips for positive and negative posts, plus a special plug for the balance part.  This special port is on the top of the battery in between the posts.  Mine had a black vinyl cap over it.

You were probably wanting the electrical engineer's explanation, but I'll have to leave that to someone who makes more money than me.

Carlos nailed it.

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2 hours ago, John01XX said:

My Scorpion Lithium has died!  Bought in 2013. 
Discovered that he cost has gone up in the past 5 years according to Battery Stuff, due to tariffs.
I paid 139.99 back in 2013 and now they want 169.99.
Looking at other options and the new supposed latest and greatest is the "Anti-Gravity Restart".

It has a built-in circuit that cuts power to the bike if the battery falls below 12.4 volts. If you forget and leave the key on or have accessories draining on it, the battery will automatically shut down all power output until you press a reset button to turn it back on while it still has plenty of power to start your bike. If your bike has its battery buried somewhere Anti-Gravity offers a key fob button to reset the battery. Cool option but not sure how practical? Cost is 199 for the Anti-gravity.

I have found most lithium batteries have a 3 year replacement warranty. I few have 5 year.

 

Edited: Battery Stuff offers the Anti-Gravity for $179.99 and free shipping and no tax.
Leaning in that direction. Haven't found any Lithium models under $144.99 for the YTX14S size.
For the 35.00 cost difference I will try the "Restart" feature since the Bird does not get out regularly.

360 CCA

 

I wonder what cells they use.  It might be rebuildable cheaply.  I'd open it up to see, worst case scen

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14 hours ago, John01XX said:

My Scorpion Lithium has died!  Bought in 2013. 
Discovered that he cost has gone up in the past 5 years according to Battery Stuff, due to tariffs.
I paid 139.99 back in 2013 and now they want 169.99.
Looking at other options and the new supposed latest and greatest is the "Anti-Gravity Restart".

It has a built-in circuit that cuts power to the bike if the battery falls below 12.4 volts. If you forget and leave the key on or have accessories draining on it, the battery will automatically shut down all power output until you press a reset button to turn it back on while it still has plenty of power to start your bike. If your bike has its battery buried somewhere Anti-Gravity offers a key fob button to reset the battery. Cool option but not sure how practical? Cost is 199 for the Anti-gravity.

I have found most lithium batteries have a 3 year replacement warranty. I few have 5 year.

 

Edited: Battery Stuff offers the Anti-Gravity for $179.99 and free shipping and no tax.
Leaning in that direction. Haven't found any Lithium models under $144.99 for the YTX14S size.
For the 35.00 cost difference I will try the "Restart" feature since the Bird does not get out regularly.

360 CCA

 

It don't seem like it is worth it to me.  I am got more years out a AGM battery that cost a good bit less.

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Thank you for all the information.

i really appreciate the charging info.  Some brands recommend their own special charger.  But internal balancing circuits make sense.

 

I already have a mosfet r/R installed.

But life has limited riding.

The slow discharge rate should help, until I can ride more.

 

Now I can make a more educated choice.

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15 hours ago, redxxrdr said:

Thank you for all the information.

i really appreciate the charging info.  Some brands recommend their own special charger.  But internal balancing circuits make sense.

 

I already have a mosfet r/R installed.

But life has limited riding.

The slow discharge rate should help, until I can ride more.

 

Now I can make a more educated choice.

 

Craig,

The new Anti-Gravity Restart has a built in circuit that cuts off all output as if battery is disconnected when the voltage drops below 12.4 volts. I spent the extra money on this model for that reason since I don't ride the Bird much these days. It cuts off before it drains down below the level to restart the bike. I am told that the worst thing for a lithium battery to experience is low voltage, below 11 volts. Can be instant death. Unlike an AGM where low voltage deaths can many times be rejuvenated, the Lithium not so much. I believe that is what killed my 5 year old Scorpion. To reset the Anti-Gravity after it has cut-off is simple with a push of a button. Crank it up and ride it a bit to recharge the lithium back up its normal 14+ Volts.
Hoping to be the last battery I will ever buy for the Bird.

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I discharged mine way below 11v. a few times.  Down to where the dash lights didn't come on when I turned the key on.  I used a normal charger and it was very quick to restart.

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