ptxyz Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 apologies if this has been covered before.might it be possible to put a '99 or earlier ignition rotor (pulse rotor, #10 in the diagram) into my 2001?i can't find aftermarket suppliers that still stock this and honda only has the later part# (30291-MAT-E00 = early, 30291-MAT-E01 = late).i understand the early bikes are @ 12 degrees btdc, the later ones @ 8. i've been trying to get my '01 to feel as snappy as my previous '00 and '97. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Pictures I've seen of the two say they're not interchangeable, but don't know for sure. Have you looked for an aftermarket one? I recall reading of one that was a fixed advance and another that was adjustable. A PC should also let you change the timing. Lastly would be DIY modifying, I've done this on a few vehicles. Slotting the 'fixed' mounting points so they can be adjusted. I haven't paid attention to the XX set up to know if that would be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 5 hours ago, superhawk996 said: Have you looked for an aftermarket one? I recall reading of one that was a fixed advance and another that was adjustable. I have the adjustable one on my 97 but that don't answer his question which I don't know either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhubarbray Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Just checked MRCycles on their diagrams and they do show a changed p/n for the injected birds but still list a rotor with a completely different number ( 30291-MV9-671 ) for the carbed birds. Anyone have a pic of an early one for show and tell? Most of the carburetted rotors I`ve seen only have 4 lobes for a 4 cyl machine while the injected ones seem to have 10-16 lobes with a gap for cyl 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) I looked very deep into this issue many moons ago. The rotor for carbed Birds is different than the ones for FI Birds, and are not compatible. Short of modifying your stock rotor like Superhawk said, the only avenue for changing ignition timing on an FI Bird is buying a Power Commander with the ignition mod adapter. Nothing $600 won't cover. This money would be better spent on a big bore kit. IMO Edited November 6, 2017 by jon haney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptxyz Posted November 6, 2017 Author Share Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) thanks for chiming in, jon! if i could find a '99 or '00 rotor, might that work? my understanding is the timing was 4 degrees retarded after '00. yikes! that's a spicy meatball! i do see a power commander 2, used on-line. those have the capability of altering ignition timing, correct? Edited November 6, 2017 by ptxyz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXitanium Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 22 hours ago, jon haney said: ...better spent on a big bore kit. IMO How big can these be bored to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 22 hours ago, ptxyz said: thanks for chiming in, jon! if i could find a '99 or '00 rotor, might that work? my understanding is the timing was 4 degrees retarded after '00. yikes! that's a spicy meatball! i do see a power commander 2, used on-line. those have the capability of altering ignition timing, correct? Don't know about the different timing, but a 99 or 00 rotor should fit on a 2001. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) 54 minutes ago, XXitanium said: How big can these be bored to? 2mm is what is still available for piston kits, but I'm sure you can go 3mm safely. Problem with 3mm, or bigger, is that you may have to order custom pistons. Don't want to guess what those cost. PM Stan (cbrxxquad). He knows everything. Edited November 7, 2017 by jon haney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXitanium Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 6 hours ago, jon haney said: 2mm is what is still available for piston kits, but I'm sure you can go 3mm safely. Problem with 3mm, or bigger, is that you may have to order custom pistons. Don't want to guess what those cost. PM Stan (cbrxxquad). He knows everything. ...longer skirts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 21 hours ago, XXitanium said: ...longer skirts? Don't know short-hand. Can you give the long version of that question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 2 hours ago, jon haney said: Don't know short-hand. Can you give the long version of that question? He is either asking if you prefer your skirts past your knees or if the pistons required custom length skirts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I don't see why they'd need longer skirts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 20 hours ago, blackhawkxx said: He is either asking if you prefer your skirts past your knees or if the pistons required custom length skirts. LOL. Although there are standard pistons out there with an 82mm diameter, that diameter would be custom for this engine. Plus, IIRC the wrist pins are 19mm diameter, which seems oddball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 There's possibly an off the shelf piston that'll work, just a matter of finding it if it exists. I discovered that a Toyota 22R piston would likely work for an air cooled VW as a cheap big bore replacement. Just happened to have both laying around the garage and got curious so I did a quick check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 I got around to rummaging through the pile. PT, the 97 and 09 are carbureted, and the pulse rotor is pictured on the bottom. 99 and later are injected and the pulse rotor from a 2000 is pictured on the top. I cannot for the life of me make this picture load in landscape view. Superimposed, the central teeth and cutout are matched. You can see that the fingers do not line up. All the injected rotors have the same fit. What source do you have that the '01 and newer have 4 degrees less static timing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptxyz Posted November 15, 2017 Author Share Posted November 15, 2017 thanks very much for sharing those pics, very interesting! so, the carburated bikes have fingers all the way around? it's interesting that honda lists the later "...-01" part number as the only one now available, even for the '99 & '00 bikes. i've been researching on-line and another forum; http://www.cbrxx.com/engine-airbox-exhaust-fuel-delivery/42913-early-ignition-rotor-into-later-bike.html i seem to recall reading someplace the retarded timing might be a function of the ecu and apply to the lower gears only. i have 2 ignition rotors from e-bay sellers; a box of pieces from a '97 engine teardown (looks like the middle one with fingers missing on the bottom) & another that's supposedly from a '99. from what i'm hearing the '97 is really a f.i. rotor. since i haven't yet found anything definitive, i was planning to have a look at mine and if the difference is only slight, swap in the early f.i. rotor. i'll be sure to post my findings although i'm a man with "too many irons in the fire"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 The carbed bikes....97 and 98 here in the US...do NOT have teeth all the way around. FI does. In the fuel injected engines, the knock sensor signals the ECU to retard the timing. There is no sensor that detects what gear the bike is in other than the neutral safety switch. The ECU has no way of knowing what gear the bike is in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Your link is to your own thread conjecturing about the timing difference. If you could point to some documentation, that would be great. There may very well be a difference in the timing, and Honda decided to decrease engine stress by making the more advanced unit unavailble...but I don't remember any official or quasi-official indication that there was a timing difference. Hmmm...maybe if I looked in the service manual The adjustable pulse rotor produced for the carbed XX also fit the CBR600 F2 and F3, as well as the CBR900. And I think the pulse rotor from an F4i also fit an XX, but I have no documentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptxyz Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 so far only forum posts... sorry, not the best link, here's another that post 17 references the manual (http://www.cbrxx.com/engine-airbox-exhaust-fuel-delivery/22568-ignition-advance-how-can-changed-2.html). here's a page from the manual on the different ignition timing. thus far, i'm thinking it's due to the differences between the ...E00 & ...E01 part# ignition rotors. all this, trying to find the snappiness i'm missing in my '01 that was present in both my old '97 & '00. even with lower gearing and aftermarket cans, it seems like i really have to try to loft the front on the new bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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