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Redbird

An alternative to squats that doesn't involve buying a leg press?

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Redbird    1,421

I'm getting too old for the shit. My habit the last few years has been to drop off the training in summer when I'm swamped with work then pick it back up over fall/winter and hit it pretty heavy when I have a lot more free time. Last year I got sidelined by a fucked up back (unrelated the weightlifting, I was picking up a laundry basket, LOL) early in the process. I actually ended up in the hospital and that was it for the year. This year I've been on the program since just before Thanksgiving and making good progress. About an hour ago I once again tweaked my back, this time squatting. Nothing serious but it was enough that I stopped right there and am not sure when I'm going to get back to it.

 

I warm up, my form is good, I stretch daily and do more core exercises than anything else. I keep the weights light- most of my lifts are at 60-70% of where they were a few years ago, don't give a shit about numbers, just tying to stay in shape. It might be time to admit a 47 year old roofer can't squat with free weights without some risk of tweaking something. I was not kind to my body in my 20's and 30's and I think I'm beginning to pay for that now.

 

So, what are my alternatives? I work out at home and am pretty well set up with a power rack, dumbbells, pull-up bar, etc. Is there anything that can replace squats that has less lower back involvement without buying a fucking leg press?

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superhawk996    797

I"m working it right now.  Sitting at the table with my legs up on the chair across from me, typing and lifting a rum & coke.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or I coulda just said bump.

 

 

I have back issues and back when I cared I did squats in a doorway holding the frame.  Feet a little bit back from the frame with my arms stretched forward and hanging from them if that makes sense.  It worked for me, but back issues and postures are so different between people.  I also have monkey length arms.

 

And I'm reminded that I still have your measuring tools.  I'm doing another batch of ammo soon and will check them just to see the differences between FL, SB, and neck sizing and get them back to you, they've been pretty much out of mind after the initial chamber checkings.  The Colt continues to short stroke in spite of making some stupid loads so it's not a weak ammo issue.  I've ordered a new gas tube and a clevis that fits the carry handle, it'll either run or be the most expensive ineffective boat anchor ever made.

 

JK, I'll keep working with it 'till I figure out what's happening and have a few tests in mind.

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Redbird    1,421

Yeah, I think we're talking about different kinds of squats. I can do unweighted squats all day.

 

 

IMG_0017.JPG

 

Can't do that in a doorway. 

 

Don't sweat the gauges, still no hurry here. That rifle is turning into a real pain in the ass, isn't it?

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superhawk996    797

I can pull off a few unweighted squats.  Maybe one weighted one if it's life & death.

Backpack or other way to strap some weight on?  Just a thought so that you're not hovering that weight over yourself and can use your arms to stabilize.  Or just be lazy like the rest of us.  My other though is to just hit all the muscles individually on your power rack, I'm not sure what that is but assume it's one of the 'all in one' type machines.  I have one of those accumulating dust next to the reloader.  I occasionally think I should get back to it but when I walk into the room I get distracted....or maybe I only walk into the room for the other purpose.

 

After tearing the Colt almost completely apart I find nothing wrong other than a slight misalignment with the tube at the key.  No more than some others I've checked, but it has worn down one side of the little hump on the end of the tube so I'm replacing it just to eliminate that possibility.  I ran some loads up to the point they pretty much stopped gaining velocity, well past book max at .3 increments.  Tho I didn't see any of the classic pressure signs people talk about, the cases seemed to possibly be bulging/sticking, they were increasingly scuffed about 1/3 of the way above the base.  At 25.8gr it was running just shy of 3300FPS, dropped a bit at 26.1, went up to 3450ish at 26.4gr. and stayed about the same to 27.3gr.  At 27.6 it was just shy of 3500 but I only fired one, figured it was time to quit.  This was all running generic bulk 55gr. FMJs and mixed cases.  The powder is 2230C data powder from Accurate.  On the bottle it states to use 2230 data, Accurate's website states to use 2460 data.  Way back I assumed load data would be black & white.  Now I've seen so much contradictory info that I'm tempted to toss the book into a fire.  Max .223 load on the bottle says 26gr.  Max for 2230 and 2460 are around 24.5-25 depending on bullet type.  2230 and 2460 data for 5.56 is about a grain higher, the bottle doesn't state 5.56 data.  What I was seeing with the velocity stalling and the scuffing of the cases made me think I might be pushing it so it seemed like a time to stop going up.  The stroking was inconsistent with powder charge increase anyway so it was pointless other than to know whether I could load it to elephant gun power.  My 16" DPMS upper worked with all the loads and the cases showed similar scuffing.  I didn't get velocities from it because the chrono wasn't working right.  I wish I'd been sighting in during the test to see what the accuracy did.  I was mostly focused on velocity, function, and trying to make sure I could drive myself home.  I doubt there's any way to load a .223 case with enough powder to blow up an AR but.

 

 

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Aunt Zero    600

Can you do unweighted squats (broomstick for a bar)?  At least that will do SOMETHING for you.

 

I don't know of many options for working the glutes short of a pulley/weight system so you attach a cable to your ankle and pull your leg down to the floor using your butt (or above the knee...depending on what you have to work with).  You can do leg extensions for the quads.

 

I have a thrombosed hemorrhoid, and the doctor told me I shouldn't be doing squats, but I'm not giving them up.  Flare ups have been the product of straining to pass, not squats, and with my knees, I don't do heavy (free) weights because I don't want to blow out a knee.  I do do 300 pounds on the squat sled so I'm not trusting my ability to stabilize the load unaided.

Edited by Aunt Zero

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Redbird    1,421

 

7 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

I can pull off a few unweighted squats.  Maybe one weighted one if it's life & death.

Backpack or other way to strap some weight on?  Just a thought so that you're not hovering that weight over yourself and can use your arms to stabilize.  Or just be lazy like the rest of us.  My other though is to just hit all the muscles individually on your power rack, I'm not sure what that is but assume it's one of the 'all in one' type machines.  I have one of those accumulating dust next to the reloader.  I occasionally think I should get back to it but when I walk into the room I get distracted....or maybe I only walk into the room for the other purpose.

 

A power rack, or cage, is a pretty simple device. It's really just a piece of safety equipment to keep you from dropping heavy things on shit that you shouldn't drop heavy things on.

 

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The main issue is getting enough weight on my legs without having to support it with my back, or at least being able to keep my back straighter than that fella in my last post. Looking around online I've found a few options. Not optimal, but neither is laying around waiting for my back to feel better. 

 

Quote

After tearing the Colt almost completely apart I find nothing wrong other than a slight misalignment with the tube at the key.  No more than some others I've checked, but it has worn down one side of the little hump on the end of the tube so I'm replacing it just to eliminate that possibility.  I ran some loads up to the point they pretty much stopped gaining velocity, well past book max at .3 increments.  Tho I didn't see any of the classic pressure signs people talk about, the cases seemed to possibly be bulging/sticking, they were increasingly scuffed about 1/3 of the way above the base.  At 25.8gr it was running just shy of 3300FPS, dropped a bit at 26.1, went up to 3450ish at 26.4gr. and stayed about the same to 27.3gr.  At 27.6 it was just shy of 3500 but I only fired one, figured it was time to quit.  This was all running generic bulk 55gr. FMJs and mixed cases.  The powder is 2230C data powder from Accurate.  On the bottle it states to use 2230 data, Accurate's website states to use 2460 data.  Way back I assumed load data would be black & white.  Now I've seen so much contradictory info that I'm tempted to toss the book into a fire.  Max .223 load on the bottle says 26gr.  Max for 2230 and 2460 are around 24.5-25 depending on bullet type.  2230 and 2460 data for 5.56 is about a grain higher, the bottle doesn't state 5.56 data.  What I was seeing with the velocity stalling and the scuffing of the cases made me think I might be pushing it so it seemed like a time to stop going up.  The stroking was inconsistent with powder charge increase anyway so it was pointless other than to know whether I could load it to elephant gun power.  My 16" DPMS upper worked with all the loads and the cases showed similar scuffing.  I didn't get velocities from it because the chrono wasn't working right.  I wish I'd been sighting in during the test to see what the accuracy did.  I was mostly focused on velocity, function, and trying to make sure I could drive myself home.  I doubt there's any way to load a .223 case with enough powder to blow up an AR but.

 

3500 FPS? Dude, that's a fucking hot load, and in mixed brass, no less. You have bigger balls than me, I would have stopped around at 3200-3300 with matched brass, probably much sooner with mixed. Seriously, if you're going to play around above max you need to pay very close attention to the little shit or your rifle problem is going to solve itself sooner or later. Not intending to be preachy, but you're playing in dangerous territory and I'd hate to see you blow something up.

 

Quote

Can you do unweighted squats (broomstick for a bar)?  At least that will do SOMETHING for you.

 

Covered above, and yes. Unweighted squats are basically cardio for me. Not completely useless, but not aligned with what I'm trying to do. My legs are skinny enough without me skipping leg day ;)

 

3 hours ago, Aunt Zero said:

 

 

I don't know of many options for working the glutes short of a pulley/weight system so you attach a cable to your ankle and pull your leg down to the floor using your butt (or above the knee...depending on what you have to work with).  You can do leg extensions for the quads.

 

I have a thrombosed hemorrhoid, and the doctor told me I shouldn't be doing squats, but I'm not giving them up.  Flare ups have been the product of straining to pass, not squats, and with my knees, I don't do heavy (free) weights because I don't want to blow out a knee.  I do do 300 pounds on the squat sled so I'm not trusting my ability to stabilize the load unaided.

 

LOL, that whole post is so you. It was all completely useless, but it made me laugh, so thanks. (:

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superhawk996    797
1 hour ago, Redbird said:

 

The main issue is getting enough weight on my legs without having to support it with my back, or at least being able to keep my back straighter than that fella in my last post. Looking around online I've found a few options. Not optimal, but neither is laying around waiting for my back to feel better. 

How bout a diver's weight belt?  I've seen them on CL pretty cheap.  Don't know how much weight you can fit on one, but a thought. Or wear a couple.  Or a belt + a light bar might be the trick; same form you're used to without so much load on the back.

1 hour ago, Redbird said:

 

 

3500 FPS? Dude, that's a fucking hot load, and in mixed brass, no less. 

The mixed brass was where I was kinda dumb, it didn't hit me 'till afterwords.  Still surprised I didn't see pressure signs, maybe they weren't actually in danger territory or maybe I'm a bad brass reader.  The hottest production ammo I've run is M856, the tracers.  A 64gr. running 3300FPS, that surprised me.  I only put one over the chrono so maybe it was a bad reading.  My friend's slower ammo (also 55gr and a little under 3000FPS) seemed to run ok but I only tried a few.  Here's where it gets really odd.  I put 4 of his on top of about 15 of mine and it shot the whole mag without issue.  I reloaded that same mag with my stuff and it was choking as usual so after firing a few I put a few of his on top and again it ate the whole mag without issue.  Almost like his were fixing the gun temporarily.  I can't find any logic to that and didn't wanna keep blowing his ammo with repeated tests, but it was interesting.  Not definitive because once in a while it seems to get in a good mood and run my stuff, but interesting that it 'fixed' it twice in a row.  Gun started the day spotlessly clean and cold, about 45 degrees out, and was malfunctioning from the start.  The temp got up to 65 with clear skies and a strong warming sun, no obvious changes.  The ejection pattern is 'correct' the few times I've checked, I usually run it with a brass catcher on, and I once put almost a full mag of brass in a camp chair.

1 hour ago, Redbird said:

LOL, that whole post is so you.

+1.

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Redbird    1,421

The chrono was your pressure sign, better then reading brass every single time, assuming you're using  appropriate powder.

 

The cycling issue, I have no clue at this point. Sound like a gun problem rather than an ammo problem, but assisting with troubleshooting from 2000 miles away doesn't work very well. What was your buddy shooting for ammo? 

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ironmike    46

Re: unweighted squats . . . Good advice from an orthopedic surgeon who warned me to take it easy on my knees; try low impact squat-thrusts in stepped sets. I incorporated a set of push-ups when I dropped to the plank position--worked well for me. Don't forget to stretch and warm up.

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superhawk996    797
6 hours ago, Redbird said:

The chrono was your pressure sign, better then reading brass every single time, assuming you're using  appropriate powder.

 

The cycling issue, I have no clue at this point. Sound like a gun problem rather than an ammo problem, but assisting with troubleshooting from 2000 miles away doesn't work very well. What was your buddy shooting for ammo? 

He was shooting production reloads from a local shop that also makes new ammo.

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Redbird    1,421
18 hours ago, ironmike said:

Re: unweighted squats . . . Good advice from an orthopedic surgeon who warned me to take it easy on my knees; try low impact squat-thrusts in stepped sets. I incorporated a set of push-ups when I dropped to the plank position--worked well for me. Don't forget to stretch and warm up.

 

Thank you for the input. I'm still trying to keep some weightlifting in the rotation but strictly body weight based exercises might be the direction I'm ultimately headed. Not yet, though.

 

12 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

He was shooting production reloads from a local shop that also makes new ammo.

 

I'd be picking up a few boxes of that a seeing if it worked reliably for more than four rounds. If it does, next step is comparing every metric possible with your hand loads. I still think you have a gun problem, but you might find a work around for it. 

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blackhawkxx    1,264
1 hour ago, Redbird said:

I still think you have a gun problem, but you might find a work around for it. 

Trade it for a AK?;)

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Aunt Zero    600

Where else can we have talk of weightlifting AND guns at the same time? B)

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Redbird    1,421

And throbosed hemorrhoids, can't forget about those. Wish I could, but....

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Aunt Zero    600

Just wait for the pictures. :ph34r:

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Redbird    1,421

Just because we've never banned anyone doesn't mean there's not a button around here somewhere. ;)

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RichardCranium    733

Good grief this thread is all over the place. Oscar, Mike...get out. ;-)

 

Seriously though. You have the cage already. Just do lightly weighted squats if you can. I hurt my shoulder and had to stop lifting for about 6 weeks. I started back last week but I still have pain so I just made up a upper lower circuit to help ease back into it. I've been doing squats with 135 (warm up weight) just trying to get back into it and the old unused (for 6 weeks) muscles were in sad shape.

 

Other alternatives:

Lunges. Hold dumbbells for weight.

 

Step ups. If you have a good solid box or if your bench is high enough you can hold dumbbells or plates and step up onto the bench. Then back down and do the other leg. Simulates a good deep squat.

 

Bavarian split squats.  I have been doing Bavarian Split Squats...or just split squats after my regular squats are done to finish off my quads. They work very well and are surprisingly difficult with very little weight.

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superhawk996    797
1 hour ago, Aunt Zero said:

Where else can we have talk of weightlifting AND guns at the same time? B)

And roids of the wrong kind.

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Aunt Zero    600
3 minutes ago, superhawk996 said:

And roids of the wrong kind.

 

But they are legal and do legitimately cause "roid rage."

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Redbird    1,421
39 minutes ago, RichardCranium said:

Good grief this thread is all over the place. Oscar, Mike...get out. ;-)

 

Seriously though. You have the cage already. Just do lightly weighted squats if you can. I hurt my shoulder and had to stop lifting for about 6 weeks. I started back last week but I still have pain so I just made up a upper lower circuit to help ease back into it. I've been doing squats with 135 (warm up weight) just trying to get back into it and the old unused (for 6 weeks) muscles were in sad shape.

 

Other alternatives:

Lunges. Hold dumbbells for weight.

 

Step ups. If you have a good solid box or if your bench is high enough you can hold dumbbells or plates and step up onto the bench. Then back down and do the other leg. Simulates a good deep squat.

 

Bavarian split squats.  I have been doing Bavarian Split Squats...or just split squats after my regular squats are done to finish off my quads. They work very well and are surprisingly difficult with very little weight.

 

LOL. Back on topic.

 

Split squats and something called "goblet squats" are both options I came across in my internet research. Lunges are already in the rotation. My ceiling in the basement isn't high enough for any step work over about 15" not enough, IMO. 

 

The problem is partially fear if I'm being honest. As of right now my back is feeling much better, probably 80-90%, but in the back of my head I'm waiting for that little twinge that tells me I just fucked up. Last year was not pleasant and I was literally laid up for 3 weeks. Really don't want to go back there. 

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TuffguyF4i    900

The answer is no.

 

You should do high reps to build confidence.  The legs..being a slow twitch..respond well to high reps and agonizing sets of 15-20 reps.  Welcome to hell.

 

The good news..you're not wasting your time.  High reps does build muscle as long as you push yourself.

Edited by TuffguyF4i
  • Upvote 1

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Redbird    1,421
1 hour ago, TuffguyF4i said:

 

 

You should do high reps to build confidence.  The legs..being a slow twitch..respond well to high reps and agonizing sets of 15-20 reps.  Welcome to hell.

 

I found out the hard way that you are correct. First leg day back I played it safe and did 4 sets of 60 unweighted squats just so I was doing something. I was walking funny for the next three days, like I hadn't done legs at all in weeks. That wasn't the only leg stuff I did, but it was the only thing that was different, trashed my quads and glutes.

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TuffguyF4i    900

That sounds right.  Walking like you have been in an all male submarine under the ice caps for 6 months.

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TuffguyF4i    900

Double post

Edited by TuffguyF4i

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TFT    483

Try lunges, both forward and back. Lunges work the same muscles as squats.

 

Quote

A forward lunge targets the abdominal muscles (transverse abdominus and obliques), the glutes (gluteus maximus, gluteus medius/minimus), the anterior thigh muscles (quadriceps) and the posterior thigh muscles (hamstrings). According to Healthy Living, it also works the calf muscles.

 

Edited by TFT

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