Zero Knievel Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Okay, the R/R from Ricks spiked twice on the way home. Rode to work to get the bike's inspection done...after laying down over $300 for new tires. Since the problem has recurred, I'm not risking using it for a trip, and I will send it back to Ricks to have them test it. I switched out the older R/R (Honda OEM) that was replaced as a precaution. I know the diagnostic chart, but what kind of numbers are you getting when you run at 3K, 5K and 7K on a multimeter? I'll static test again tonight, but they are looking a bit too high for comfort, but I really didn't do much more than make sure it was working at the time. I still have my original R/R. Replaced it only because the wires showed damage from weather exposure, but it was working fine when I switched it out. I'm buying the stuff to reinstall it if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 define spiked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 Shooting over 15v to 17-18v. If something else is causing this to happen, I've yet to isolate it. Of course, to tear EVERYTHING down to check every inch of wire would fuck up my plans for the next month. I'd think a proper functioning R/R shouldn't let the voltage even hit 15v...even though it's the upper limit for a PASS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 R/R is showing signs of not working if it spikes... Replace You also got hosed on tire prices.. I normally pay $250 and that includes mounting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 That's what I'm doing, but I'm wondering how high the OEM Honda R/R goes normally at 3K, 5K and 7K. I'm reinstalling the old R/R which, to my knowledge, did not fail and was replaced as a precautionary measure only. I got used to the newest one (aftermarket) not going over 14.2v. Even though 15v is the upper limit, I'd think it may be a bad sign if your R/R is holding at 14.9v. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockmeupto125 Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 What are you using to measure voltage, and are you doing anything specific when this is happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 For a "static test" (e.g., at home with bike on centerstand), I put a multimeter to the battery and see if it's numbers match what the bike-mounted voltmeter is showing. So far, every time the numbers matched (within 0.1v). Never has the malfunction/spike occurred when doing a static test (so I can't eliminate a faulty voltmeter as the culprit). I do the standard deal. See what the voltage is at idle, rev to 3K and hold, rev to 5K and hold. I also like to rev up to 7K+ to see if anything odd happens (which it shouldn't). Tonight I'll do the "full Monty" test for the stator wires and R/R to ensure there is no fault there before I do another static test. A few others, elsewhere, said any number of "little things" could cause the voltage to spike, but then I'm looking for a shorted wire. I might take another gander at the wiring schematic as well as take readings off the wires coming from the R/R rather than the battery. As I understand electrical theory, an overvoltage without an actual overvoltage would require two or more "sources" wired in series. I don't see how a shorting wire would add more voltage than is actually in the system unless the stator is channeling power into the bike via another means that bypasses the R/R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Don't over-think it Mike. Yes, causes other than the R/R are possible, but very remote. Stick to the normal cause (R/R), do your checks for "peace of (your) mind", and then buy a new R/R as a back-up for the OEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 As I can't reproduce the malfunction in a static test, I'm hard-pressed to believe the R/R has failed if there are other ways it can happen. I really need to get through the next couple of weeks with what I have on hand. Buying yet another R/R is not an option at this time. All three can't be bad at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted June 3, 2016 Share Posted June 3, 2016 Mike, my 01. AGM battery, approx 1.5 years old. Ricks stator. OEM R/r Fluke 87 cal due date Jan 2017 3k. 14.9 vdc 5k 14.55 vdc 7k 14.53 vdc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 Thanks for the numbers. My story so far.... Got home, pulled all 3 R/R units. Did the diode and continuity tests. All 3 passed with no hint of fault. Tested the stator. Passed. I "rewired" the 3 R/Rs so they can be more "plug and play." Tomorrow, I'll test each one out. If I find no fault, I'll pick the one I feel best about and put it on and pack the other two as standbys in case I'm wrong. If there is a way for an overvoltage to register without it being the R/R, I'm not seeing how it would happen with the bike's schematic. I've yet to find any indication of bad wiring. I'll go ahead and find a way to hard-connect leads to either the battery or the R/R output so that I can monitor it in real time with a small, inexpensive multimeter (I did this to verify if my speedometer was failing or just losing signal). Hopefully this is really nothing more than my on-bike voltmeter going bad and throwing odd numbers from time to time, but I'm hard pressed to figure out how a solid state meter would just decide to start going faulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 I know of no way to get more voltage out but a R/r failure or bad meter. Rectifier diodes short, load on stator and heat through the R/r and stator. Diodes open, no current flow, no output. Some partial combination of the above two modes, again.... Lower output. I did put my meter on the min/max sample setting, 1ms sample rate. I toggled through so that both min and max voltages were the same and revved my engine. No dropouts or peaks captured. Too lazy to get out a O scope. Your meter might see something faster than 1ms, but I doubt that your eyes could. I also sampled AC voltage at the battery. pretty stable around 145 milli volts. Three different R/r with the same results? I would suspect your dash meter. I still recommend putting a known good DVM on your battery and compare the readings when it fails. I always check my work meters when they come back from calibration. Once in a while, I get one that reads off straight back from repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 Well, at least this afternoon's efforts were a bit of encouragement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanditSid Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 The regulator needs a good connection to earth (battery negative) as it uses this as the reference point for it's regulated output. I would check that both the green wires in the reg/rec connector have a low resistance to either the frame or battery negative, if it's much more than 1 ohm I'd be tempted to add an extra wire from each green cable to the earth point on the cross rail under the rear of the fuel tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted June 4, 2016 Share Posted June 4, 2016 Pretty sure the only connection that can raise the voltage would be the regulator ground since it needs to send all the 'extra' power to it. Bad connections elsewhere should lower the voltage. It would be nice if the stator were regulated the way a car alternator is. How long did the voltage spikes last? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 4, 2016 Author Share Posted June 4, 2016 Spikes would last until I dropped the revs to idle for a few seconds. Maybe come back if I revved again, but I could NEVER get a meter on the battery and reproduce the error. I've tested all three R/Rs on the bike. All pass with the MOSFET one (Rick's) showing the lowest numbers across the board. I listened to my gut and reinstalled the prior R/R (Honda, but not the original one from the XX). I fabricated terminals to add to the battery so I can have the good multimeter hard wired at all times. I'll try again to check over wires, but so far I've found nothing off. If it happens again, I'll know if it's the voltmeter glitching or something consistent with the charging system. I'm packing my tools and extra R/Rs for the trip. I was going to use the cheaper and smaller multimeter, but it was reading 20v off the battery when the other one read consistent with the one on the bike, so I had to dump that option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmacza Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 Stop dicking around and do the R1 RR mod - mine's been bulletproof. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Absolutely DO NOT do the R1 RR. You should continue on your own path of finding something else that will work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 Well, as I pointed out, ALL 3 of my R/R units test within specs. The whole charging system checks out. So, a good multimeter is now hard-wired into the battery. If it happens again, I can confirm if it's real or a faulty on-bike voltmeter. If the voltmeter is good, I'm going to have to really spelunk the internet to see how the ground wires run from the R/R to the frame to look of any sign of breakage or loose connection since that's the most likely cause of intermittent overvoltage. I'm not running the newest R/R, so the odds of this repeating because of a fault in the R/R is highly improbable. I know people who've spent THOUSANDS trying to fix a computer problem on their cages only to ultimately find out it was a frayed wire touching the bodywork. Troubleshooting and electrical problem with no obvious fault is very frustrating...unless you get lucky and find it early on. On the up side, the glue traps in my pickup truck caught 3 field mice that were making nests in my A/C system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted June 7, 2016 Share Posted June 7, 2016 One other thing to think about, Mike. When doing your "static tests", the R/R is not likely to see the heat & vibration that it will going down the road, If you noticed the voltage spike with two different R/Rs, then a bad ground(s) is likely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 11, 2016 Author Share Posted June 11, 2016 Well, took a day trip of about 200 miles. Voltmeter and multimeter stayed in agreement. No spikes. If I get to winter without seeing it happen, I'll know it's something off about the R/R from Ricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Believe someone mentioned about not using Ricks in another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 Someone did. It was another biker (electrical engineer) who put me on to them and vouched for their quality. I'm surprised it turned out the way it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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