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Diagnostic guide for battery drain.


superhawk996

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If the battery is low right after a ride, it's likely a charging system issue or bad battery.  There are threads covering those pretty well, this isn't for you.  Do check your connections and battery condition before assuming it's a charging system problem.


If it takes hours or days to go dead then something is draining.  Have the battery tested even if you think it's too new to be bad.  I've pulled new batteries from the shelf that were bad.  On occasion a battery will test good on an analyzer but actually be bad, pretty rare but it has happened to me.  It would be wise to disconnect it, check its voltage, let it sit overnight, and recheck to be sure it's not self-draining.  When checking for vehicle draining you need to set your meter & leads to amps, not milliamps.  If the battery has been disconnected before starting the testing, connect it and start the engine then turn it off before continuing-you'll see why.  Clip the red meter lead to a good clean chassis ground point and the black lead to the negative battery terminal before disconnecting the negative terminal.  The reason is that some mystery drains can open once you disconnect the battery giving you a false 'no drain' reading.  Tho it's somewhat rare, it does happen.  Most vehicles have some normal drain, maybe around .1a powering a clock, computer memory, anti-theft, etc., but if you have a fault it'll likely be much higher and obvious.  If your reading is high you can then start disconnecting stuff with the meter on so you'll know when you found the issue.  If there's been any add-ons or wiring mods suspect them over factory stuff and start there.  Then go to relays and fuses.  If pulling a relay fixes it then it's likely just a stuck relay, but re-test after replacement to be sure.  Full re-test means reconnect the battery, start the engine, shut it off, etc. as before.  If you find that the drain is through a fuse then it's one of the things being powered by that fuse that has the problem.  In many cases a fuse powers more than what's stated on the fuse box cover so check the manual if in doubt.  Remember that there are small normal drains so don't be fooled by a fuse that drops the reading a tiny amount.  The charging system can also cause a drain so if fuses and relays don't uncover the gremlin try disconnecting the stator, regulator, rectifier, alternator, generator depending on what you're working on.  There are often unfused circuits and circuits powered by fusible links, circuit breakers, or fuses that aren't in the fuse box depending on the vehicle.

 

If the meter is connected backwards the vehicle, meter, you, and anything else nearby will be vaporized leaving a small-ish black hole that lasts about a week.  Or maybe the meter will just display a negative reading, it'll still be an accurate number but with - in front of it.

I've had to find some intermittent drains which can be a real bitch.  Aftermarket cruise control wired to a constant power instead of ignition power, that was a motherfucker to figure out as it only drained when the switch was left on.  Some other fun ones that come to mind: glove box light, vanity mirror light, trunk light, under-hood light, stuff plugged into power ports, DVD player, on-board battery charger, alarm.

Edited by superhawk996
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Great post.

The only thing additional that I do is charge the battery, let it settle overnight.

Measure the voltage, then install.  Measure again.

 

The digital clock on the cluster won't pull enough current to show any short term voltage drop.

If you see an immediate drop, with the bike turned off, Problem.

At that point, I agree.  Disconnect the farkles. 

Still dropping? Wires worn through insulation, or the R/r has a leak, or full short.

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13 hours ago, redxxrdr said:

Great post.

The only thing additional that I do is charge the battery, let it settle overnight.

Measure the voltage, then install.  Measure again.

 

The digital clock on the cluster won't pull enough current to show any short term voltage drop.

If you see an immediate drop, with the bike turned off, Problem.

At that point, I agree.  Disconnect the farkles. 

Still dropping? Wires worn through insulation, or the R/r has a leak, or full short.

I guess testing the battery should be in there, I just assumed 'we're past that' and there is an actual drain; gonna edit.

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22 minutes ago, superhawk996 said:

I guess testing the battery should be in there, I just assumed 'we're past that' and there is an actual drain; gonna edit.

 

I service battery operated equipment a lot.

Even a new battery can be bad, or a old battery can be good.

 

I find that starting with a known " at rest" battery helps.

If editing, I would suggest removing farkles, and / or disconnecting the R/r connector when looking for drain.

To my knowledge, nothing else is directly connected to the battery with the switch off.  

Yes, the starter solenoid, but that should cause the starter to run, or battery to drain FAST, if stuck.

It would be great to have your post stickied right beside the " charging" troubleshooting guide.

They often need to be used together.

 

plus, this information also works for boats, automobiles, four wheelers, etc.. Pretty much anything with a battery electrical system.

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while doing some research on an electrical systems I thought I might add some info as well

 

Regulator/Rectifiers are not created equally. :o

 

You have your normal SCR R/R to regulate the voltage coming from your stator.

 

Most new R/R are a MOSFET style, which are better as they have a better heat sink to allow them to dissipate the heat that is generated and not self destruct as heat is a enemy.

Both don't do anything to help the stator have a better longer life.

 

The newer versions are a series style R/R (used on a lot of newer sportbikes now)  that reduces the load on the stator and allows it to have a better chance of lasting much longer.

The series R/R can be retro fitted to pretty much fit any make and model bike with the help of some connectors and a little wiring skills.

 

The series style are a little bigger and will need some new connections made but have shown to be a far superior system update to those bikes who seem to run into stator and R/R suicide.

 

Finding the R/R by itself is a pain in the butt, there is a guy selling the kits for it that has connections and stuff bundled together.

 

Jack Fleming owns roadstercycle.com and seems to be the go to guy and is highly recommended for getting parts

 

The SH847 Series R/R kits are what I have been looking at and thinking of going with.

 

 

 

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My understanding is that the stator is always putting out max power and the R/R turns any extra power/voltage into heat.  A better R/R can live longer, but I don't see a way it can add life to the stator unless it creates an open circuit of the output rather than absorbing the excess power.  I'd appreciate a link to something that describes how this series R/R decreases stator load.

 

A generator or alternator is regulated differently, it gets signaled by the regulator to generate more or less power as needed.

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I don't understand all the ends and outs of electrical, for your reading pleasure. I also thought the same, the stator just makes power based off of the wire gauge and number of times wrapped and number of posts, sends to the R/R and it handles it.. I just ordered a MOSFET R/R last night instead of a series for my Daytona, its a track bike only unless I actually tag it and go on limited short trips. My XX is my dedicated bike and would install the plugs and series R/R on that first if they are better at doing their job.

 

 

 

http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-triple-forum/104504-charging-system-diagnostics-rectifier-regulator-upgrade.html

 

and next up

 

http://www.triumphrat.net/triumph-supersports/599170-d600-new-stator-and-r-r-installation.html

 

 

 

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Thanks for the links.  So the series regulator does go open circuit to discard excess current rather than just turning it into heat like the standard ones do.  This takes the load off the stator letting it run cooler, it may also reduce engine load some.

 

For those who don't know how it works, here's the basics.  The stator is always making maximum power.  This would make the voltage too high unless there was enough load (stuff being powered or low battery being charged) to keep the voltage down.  Since there's almost always too much being generated the standard or mosfet regulators become the load which heats the regulator, it's basically creating a controlled short circuit to keep the voltage down where it needs to be.  The series regulator takes that incoming extra power from the stator and disconnects it from the system not allowing that power to get to anything.

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It goes nowhere.  It's like turning off a light switch, the electricity is still present at the input side, but not reaching the light.  If this 'switch' were cycled rapidly the voltage to the bike's battery could be kept within spec.  The stator is putting out somewhere around 60v., don't recall the specs.  If this were switched on/off at a rapid controlled pace the battery, and the rest of the bike's system, would stay at a proper voltage.  Since I used the light switch analogy it lead my brain to light dimmers.  The old way to dim a light was to use a resistor to 'soak up' the extra power kinda like a normal regulator does in a bike's charging system.  Modern dimmers use a fast cycle on-off so they dim the light without burning up extra electricity.

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Not really part of the diagnostic, but I'm too lazy to start a new thread.

My god daughter came over for a ride this weekend.  Her new to her ninja 650 came with under tail led lights.

she mentioned that her idle had been surging a few hundred rpm.

LEDs were controlled by a rocker switch installed in the instrument cluster.

 

Then I see two 18 gauge wires, running from the rear, tyewrapped to the top of the frame, going to the switch.

Two very burned wires.

The bike uses the small spade type fuses in the fuse box.  Someone had wrapped one of the wires around a fuse, (line side of course), to power the LED strip through the switch.

 

The tank sits on top of the frame, above these new wires.  Can you say short ready to happen?  It did.

She was lucky, the wires opened, the line side of the harness did not fry, and her charging system still works.

I disconnected the wires, and she said it ran right now.

 

So long story for my point. 

When installing farkles, use a in-line fuse.  I also use a fused switching relay, per Farkle.

And watch and protect your wire routing.

Bike vibrate, parts move. It would suck to ruin your bike, or get hurt, for something that can easily be avoided.

 

Edited by redxxrdr
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Good thing it was only 18ga. wire.  I see shit like that too often, sometimes with bad consequences.  I've piggy-backed on fuses, but always on the load side of the fuse.

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