Jump to content
CBR1100XX.org Forum
TFT

2002 XX cranks but won't start (Correction, 2001)

Recommended Posts

I don't think it's a known failure point. So yours cranks but no fuel pump? Did it happen suddenly? After being parked a while or with regular use? You've checked power to and function of the fuel pump relay? You've put power directly to the pump and it works?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A possible cause would be the test connector. Mine started acting up giving intermittent FI light flickers and stalls. Don't know for sure if fuel pump power or signal can be interrupted by it, but maybe someone knowing will chime in.

You may have someone closer, but I can test your ecu on my '01 if you wanna send it to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I greatly appreciate the offer, but I just sent my ecu to John01XX in FL to plug in and test. Yes, something failed suddenly- I rode 45 minutes, parked it, tried to start and got no fuel pump prime, only strong cranking. Absolutely no prior warning signs, no typical test plug dash flickers (been there with my '00 model). Test plug unwrapped and visually inspected anyway- absolutely no corrosion, leads are super clean. Fuel pump hot wired and functions normally. Worst kind of failure- completely normal running, stop, then no starting, instant electrical failure of some kind- stranded. This will be interesting either way, depending on what John finds with my ecu- go or no go.

Edited by sandman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if you got this resolved but I had the exact same problem a few weeks back. The bike sat for a couple of weeks with no use due to weather, when I went to start it there was no HISS light on turning the key and no fuel pump prime but it cranked over at the normal speed. Turned out to be the fuse in the white holder next to the battery positive connection. The holder had some corrosion on one of the connectors and the fuse, while it looked fine, was open circuit - possibly some internal corrosion. I cleaned the holder with contact cleaner and fitted a new fuse and it fired up straight away. It now feels a bit more powerful, possibly the problem had been there for a while and was gradually getting worse till it failed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update: I am still looking for the source of the fuel pump-no-prime issue! Here's what I've unsuccessfully replaced trying to figure it out:
1.) all fuses
2). diode -nos part
3.) bank angle sensor - used one
4.) swapped relays between each other, bought a used one to try- no change
5.) used ECU plugged in- no change
6.) right switchgear assembly (kill switch)-nos part, not the problem
7.) factory test plug unwrapped- no corrosion what so ever, no FI lights ever

Fuel pump hot wired: primes as normal, bike starts up.  Everything else works electrically, as normal. Something is stopping the fuel pump from getting power. This is a 10K mile only XX.
What am I missing here- what else to check or try at this point?

Edited by sandman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You need to see if you have voltage at the fuel pump when the key is turned on.

If you have voltage at the pump then replace the fuel pump. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you traced the wiring looking for a rub spots or pinch points?  That's all I got.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does the relay click on then off about 2 seconds later when you key on?  If yes check for voltage at the pump when you turn the key on, if it gets good voltage it's likely a bad ground.  Post findings and we'll continue.

Edited by superhawk996

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, John01XX said:

You need to see if you have voltage at the fuel pump when the key is turned on.

If you have voltage at the pump then replace the fuel pump. 

It works with a jumper so it's not a dead pump.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/23/2016 at 2:58 PM, sandman said:

Fuel pump hot wired and functions normally

I think the fuel pump gets it's ground from the ECM, so if you hot wired it with both a hot and ground you might have a bad ground at the ECM.  

 

21 hours ago, sandman said:

all fuses

By all fuses, you did check the 30A, 10A, and 20A fuses?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be a little more specific, the ground is provided by the green wire to the common ground that should have 4 wires on it (all different colors).  That green wire should go to pin A11 of the black connector at the ECM.  Have you checked for continuity from a known good ground to pin A11?  If you don't have continuity, then you've lost that ground and the fuel pump won't work.

Let us know something.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 1:32 PM, XXera said:

To be a little more specific, the ground is provided by the green wire to the common ground that should have 4 wires on it (all different colors).  That green wire should go to pin A11 of the black connector at the ECM.  Have you checked for continuity from a known good ground to pin A11?  If you don't have continuity, then you've lost that ground and the fuel pump won't work.

Let us know something.

 

 

I admittedly have little experience with a meter, and haven't needed to track something down like this in some 90K miles between the three XX's I've owned. I've already learned a lot, but this has got me frustrated- I may need a dealer technician to solve. Hate to leave my bike off at start of season, have always solved my own issues.

 

Green wire into ecu doesn't match up to pin A11 in my shop manual wiring diagram, and I don't know hot to check continuity to it when I do verify it's location.

Edited by sandman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got a 1999-2000 manual and here is a picture of what I was talking about. If you don't have access to an ohmn meter, then your best probably your best option is to take it to someone.

IMG_2600.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You said bring it to a Dealer.

Unless you know that the tech is an A tech at the Dealer do NOT take it there.

Here in So Florida the best A tech's are not working at the dealerships.

Dealerships charge the highest shop rates as well. Ask around locally for a

reputable shop that works on a lot of sport bikes. Their rates will be cheaper

and chances are you will get better service performed.

It really should be a relatively easy thing to figure out with some multimeter

skills and the right wiring diagram.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you check the relay function and voltage to the pump as in my recent post?  Nothing technical, just a voltmeter or test light.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, XXera said:

I've got a 1999-2000 manual and here is a picture of what I was talking about. If you don't have access to an ohmn meter, then your best probably your best option is to take it to someone.

IMG_2600.JPG

That appears to be a supply ground, not a control ground.  The computer controls the pump via the relay, not the ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The following was suggested by another XX owner:

 

With all the components you swapped out with no success I would suspect the harness at this point. The fuel cut-off relay is a good diagnostic point, there are 4 connections.
1. Br, brown wire provides power to the pump
2. Bl/W, blue with white supplies 12V to a relay contact
3. Bl/W, blue with white supplies 12V to the relay coil
4. Br/Bl brown with black is the ground supplied by the ECM.

Pull the relay and verify #'s 2, 3, 4 and see that you get 12V and gnd at key on. If all is ok then check you get 12V at the pump brown wire (this verifies the harness from the relay to the pump).

 

I followed through, with these results: 12V at terminal #2 and #3 (two black/white wires). No voltage at #1 and #4.

Where to go from there- what would the next step be?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assuming the above terminal ID is correct: #1 connects relay output to pump, you could check it with an ohm meter.

To check #4 put the meter + wire on the battery + and the - wire on the #4 terminal, turn the key on and it should make connection for a couple seconds then disconnect; that would be the computer signaling the relay to prime the fuel system.

 

I'll try one last time; does the relay click on then off when you turn the key on?  If so do you get power at the fuel pump connector?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I greatly appreciate your specific help and suggestions, superhawk996.

 

I checked #4 Br/Bl terminal of fuel pump relay- it shows 3V, and flashes to 12V briefly, then back down to 3V.

Yes, the fuel pump relay clicks on and off with key on. At the fuel pump connector I get 0V- with key on, the fuel pump relay clicks and I get 12V briefly, then back to 0V.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, sandman said:

I greatly appreciate your specific help and suggestions, superhawk996.

 

I checked #4 Br/Bl terminal of fuel pump relay- it shows 3V, and flashes to 12V briefly, then back down to 3V.

Yes, the fuel pump relay clicks on and off with key on. At the fuel pump connector I get 0V- with key on, the fuel pump relay clicks and I get 12V briefly, then back to 0V.

I would suggest putting a jumper wire to the ground side at the pump and hit the key since you did get + power to the pump wire.  If you wanna PM me your phone # it'll be faster and easier to talk it through; altho it may seem a bit daunting right now it should be a simple solution.  I'll be out wheelin tomorrow morning but should have a little time in the afternoon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sounds like you have a ground problem and it may be related to the loom fix issue. If you look at the schematic for your bike there are around 10 connections all made to the common ground wire that is earthed to the bike frame under the rear of the tank. The loom fix connector is where each of these wires are connected together, so all of the lights and indicators and fuel pump and ECU and some sensors are joined together and then to a wire that goes to the earth under the tank. Honda do this so they can check the current drawn by various parts of the bike during the build process to confirm they are operating correctly. The loom fix was corroded on my bike as was the earth under the tank, I would suggest you carry out the loom fix and then check the earth point for corrosion and fix that as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the advice, BanditSid + Superhawk996- I'm going to go ahead and do just that. I had uncovered the plug and visually inspected it, and seeing no corrosion just recovered it. Will remove plug ends and solder it together and report back. This could be it- exited by the possibility of solving this.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you have power commanders?  Remove them and try again 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 28. mars 2016 at 2:56 AM, sandman said:

Thanks for the advice, BanditSid + Superhawk996- I'm going to go ahead and do just that. I had uncovered the plug and visually inspected it, and seeing no corrosion just recovered it. Will remove plug ends and solder it together and report back. This could be it- exited by the possibility of solving this.

 

 

 

Have you fixed it?
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use