Vern......Talk to me

[RXX]

Tell me more about your headlight setup.

For the rest of you, I saw Vern's bike the other day. Very sweet! It has LED headlight bulbs. I forget where he got them.

What do you think pros/cons would be?

Edited June 21, 2014 by RXX

[Chewtoy]

Here: http://www.ddmtuning.com/Product-Categories/Motorcycle-HID-Kits-Lighting

Don't see dual bulb kits anymore, but give them a call after you've determined your bulb type. Great people, I have em in the bird and the expedition

Edited June 21, 2014 by Chewtoy

[xrated]

Philip, here is a link to the kit that I bought, although it looks like it is currently out of stock. It is a H4 unit, as that is what the FZ09 requires. As I recall, the BlackBird is an H7???? .....I can't remember for sure.

Mine was a pretty easy install for sure. Because of having to make a bracket for the ballast, it took a little longer, but all in all, pretty straight-forward.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261358074951?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I'm sure there are many others out there, so don't let this be your only choice. Good seeing you again yesterday.

[OrganDonor]

How does the light pattern compare to HID?

[xrated]

As far as I can tell, light patterns don't change that much unless you do a projector retrofit. The LED kit goes into the headlight housing just like a regular H4 bulb. The difference is that it operates off of a small ballast. Obviously, for better lighting concentration, a projector upgrade would be required. I rarely, if ever ride at night, but it is very visible during daylight hours.

[EVLXX]

So... Not to be a Asshole, But... just remember, with every Amp of power you save running those Less Demanding electrical products... the greater the Load of dissipation you put on your Regulator/Rectifier.... and if the load is to great, or it's of a high enough load for to long.... it will damage the R/R.

[xrated]

So... Not to be a Asshole, But... just remember, with every Amp of power you save running those Less Demanding electrical products... the greater the Load of dissipation you put on your Regulator/Rectifier.... and if the load is to great, or it's of a high enough load for to long.... it will damage the R/R.

Not to be an Asshole, but you are exactly 100% wrong. Edited June 24, 2014 by xrated

[The Krypt Keeper]

what does the bike do with all the excess power it makes all the time? Clearly it can't use all the 460W it produces and is regulated with. Where does it go?

also adding LED or HID bulbs both use less power don't they..

[xrated]

Power, by definition in the electrical world is.....voltage times amperage which equals Watts. The alternator is producing a voltage which in turn causes current flow through the circuits. If you have fewer circuits or circuits that draw less current, there is less power consumed. Think of it just like you would a water line coming into your house. The water pressure is always there, but if you turn your faucet off, there is no flow. If you turn the faucet on only half way, there is only half the amount of water flow as there is during "fully open". So, the alternator has the ability to produce or supply 460, Watts of power, but if there is not devices running or turned on that consume that much power, it's not producing 460 Watts.

Edited June 24, 2014 by xrated

[The Krypt Keeper]

thats a hell of a good description with the water line. thanks..

I know on my father in laws model A the generator on it is always producing power (well once up to running RPM) it will charge the battery up but doesn't regulate it like modern cars/bikes/ect

so if you are driving any distance say over 10 or 15 miles you need to turn on the headlights to give all this power being generated a place to go and not cook the battery.

[xrated]

Thanks Krypt......That was the way it was explained to me back in the 70's when I was going through my apprenticeship for Electrician. There has to be current flow in order for there to be "power". Voltage alone does absolutely nothing.....unless there is a path for the voltage to make current flow.

[EVLXX]

So, the alternator has the ability to produce or supply 460, Watts of power, but if there is not devices running or turned on that consume that much power, it's not producing 460 Watts.

However... you Motorcycle does Not have an Alternator....

It has a Generator, that Yes, Is always producing power... and all the excess power, gets burnt up in the form of Heat energy by the Regulator Rectifier.

So... the more electrical power usage you save with LED lights etc., the harder you make the Reg/Rectifier work.

[blackhawkxx]

So why do motorcycles use an generator and cars use an alternator?

[IcePrick]

If the power-generating device is not an alternator, why does the current need to be rectified?

My layman's understanding of the R/R is that it rectifies the AC current output by the alternator, and regulates the voltage - not amperage - of the alternator. Because the alternator operates between such extremes of RPMs on a motorcycle, the raw voltage output varies significantly. Again, my layman's understanding is that the regulator is shedding voltage through heat, not amperage.

[xrated]

So, the alternator has the ability to produce or supply 460, Watts of power, but if there is not devices running or turned on that consume that much power, it's not producing 460 Watts.

However... you Motorcycle does Not have an Alternator....

It has a Generator, that Yes, Is always producing power... and all the excess power, gets burnt up in the form of Heat energy by the Regulator Rectifier.

So... the more electrical power usage you save with LED lights etc., the harder you make the Reg/Rectifier work.

I will say one thing about you Eric.....you are consistent.....WRONG AGAIN! Motorcycles have alternators....NOT Generators. And furthermore, the regulator/rectifier controls the voltage output from the alternator.....not the current. The alternator will only produce enough power for what the needs of the bike is....up to its maximum wattage rating. There is NO excessive power made in either a generator OR an alternator...to be dissipated.

[EVLXX]

I like being consistent....

Just not consistently Wrong.... LOL. This leads to a self educational event, Like now, which is usually after someone makes a comment without any proof to back up there statements. Which I can be just as guilty of... I admitt. This usually happens form something learned years and years ago... without an educational event on the subject since then.

So here...

Alternators and Generators...

http://www.differencebetween.net/object/difference-between-alternator-and-generator/

Regulator Rectifiers...

http://racetechelectric.com/ft-751-voltage-regulators.html

[EVLXX]

OH and one more thing....

Fron the LED light Ebay link above... The Lumens output of those LED lights is said to be 1800 and 1600 Lumens.

Specification
Socket: H4
Power: 50W/set (25W/bulb)
Voltage：DC12V-24V
Size: approx 19.5mm (0.77inch) in diameter and 81mm (3.19inch) in height
Input: High beam 2.2A ± 0.1A；Low beam 2A ± 0.1A
Lumens: High beam1800lm/bulb; Low beam 1600lm/bulb
LED quantity: 2PCS*Cree-1512 chips each
Material: Aluminum
Color temperature: Pure white 6000K
Beam Angle: 360 degree

Which is the SAME light output from most all Stock 55W bulbs...which vary between 1200-1800 Lumens... and Nowhere near the output of a 35W HID.. which is in the 3000 Lumens range.

See here... (in this chart the D2S and D2R's are the HID bulbs.)

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/bulb_types/bulb_types.html

[xrated]

So now you have an understanding....basically, of what is going on...right?

Most of the time, the term generator is associated with a device that produces A/C or alternating current...such as a back up generator that you may have out in your garage. But, there are also DC generators...or Direct Current generators. I've seen hundreds of them in my years in the steel mill. Some are so large that they wouldn't fit in a typical two car garage...and believe, there are bigger ones out there.

Alternators are always going to produce....alternating voltage. The manufacturer will then equip it with a rectifier package if D.C. is needed, in order to convert the voltage to a direct voltage..which will be able to used to power a device that requires direct current.

I kind of use the words voltage and current interchangeably because, the whole purpose of producing the voltage is to make it produce current flow for whatever you are trying to accomplish....charging a battery...operating the headlights...etc.

Edited June 25, 2014 by xrated

[EVLXX]

Yes.. I've had a basic understanding about this the entire time.. however... I know that our motorcycles use a Shunt Regulator.... which is what made all the rest of this talk ...

This is interesting.... in the very first paragraph...

http://www.roadstercycle.com/Frequently%20asked%20questions.htm

Which confirms what I was trying to say earlier , in a round about way.... your Motorcycle has a Shunt (Linear) regulator... which Burns off the excess electricity...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_regulator

Not a Switching Regulator... Like on a Car.

So ya... plug in those LED's and say goodby to your R/R.

....

[mikesail]

Eric is absolutely right on one main point, as the Bird alternator/generator does use a shunt regulator. The power produced by the alternator is a function of RPM, and once it exceeds the load the excess is dumped to ground by the RR unit. This will manifest itself as heat, thus the large fins on the later units.

I'm not in agreement that the lower load of an LED bulb will lead to RR failure, it just means that it will dissipate an extra 50 watts.

To further clarify, the shunt regulator is a short circuit that is switched on and off at a very high rate, following the AC frequency of the alternator. It clips the output voltage whenever it tries to exceed its setpoint, 13.8 or whatever.

The question of linear or switching regulator is not relevant here, and at least until recent years cars did in fact use a linear regulator if not still today.

The important difference with a car alternator is that a field coil is used to generate the magnetic field, instead of the fixed magnets in the BIrd. This field coil is adjusted by the regulator circuit to maintain the needed output, thus no extra power is wasted.

I saw an ad for a mosfet based RR unit, this allegedly regulates by opening the output path instead of shorting it to ground. This would minimize the power lost, although the voltage on the stator coils will then spike to about 100v or so, probably not an issue though.

[EVLXX]

So... if the RR has to dissipate and Extra 50W... from just the headlight. then you add in the Tail light, and running lights, etc. and there's another 100+

Now if you don't use it somewhere else, because you could, and that would be great, then your RR is going to constantly be burning off the excess, which if it wasn't designed to handle the increased load rate.... would shorten it's lifespan. I'm not saying it's going to kill it "tomorrow"... just shorten its duty cycle, if you will.... and how much shorter depends on how HOT you run it.

PS... 150 watts of Heat in a small area is one Hot mother fucking spot... or block for that matter. Go ahead and Grab a lit up 150W light bulb with a bear hand.... ya NO... me neither.

[brianmacza]

Which is why the R1 rectifier/regulator is a winner... It was designed for a heavier load and compared to the stock RR on a '97 it rocks

[xrated]

OK, I will be the first to admit when I'm wrong, and I apparently didn't know as much (little) as I thought I did about automotive/motorcycle electrics. I've been a maint. Electrician since 1980 and have never really dealt with automotive type electrical very much and simply wasn't aware that there was something called a shunt regulator.

I still would like to know though, how do you know that it's a shunt regulator....as I've not been able to find any info in that regard concerning the XX. Obviously, having sold my Bird in 2005, I don't have a service manual on it anymore.

[DBLXX]

OK, I will be the first to admit when I'm wrong, and I apparently didn't know as much (little) as I thought I did about automotive/motorcycle electrics. I've been a maint. Electrician since 1980 and have never really dealt with automotive type electrical very much and simply wasn't aware that there was something called a shunt regulator.

I still would like to know though, how do you know that it's a shunt regulator....as I've not been able to find any info in that regard concerning the XX. Obviously, having sold my Bird in 2005, I don't have a service manual on it anymore.

Although you did your best to belittle and bully before admitting you were wrong.

Super mature ya stink cunt

[TuffguyF4i]

No plug and play LED bulb is going to have the same output as an HID projector or even HID PNP.

Look at the stock LED headlight configurations in the new cars these days. Take the Denali or the Acura MDX or the new Audi...they all have multiple LED emitters behind very high end lenses. Anything less and you aren't getting light on the road any where near an HID.