Do not use distilled water only

[blackhawkxx]

I searched online and couldn't find the letter from Sportrider magazine but found a post on another forum that summarized it pretty well. I have never heard of distilled water eating aluminum before.

In the October 2013 issue of Sport Rider, there is a question posted in their regular series entitled "YOUR ABNORMAL GUIDE TO THINGS ABNORMAL".

The question is "Water Water Everywhere".

The reader states that he purchased a used 2006 GSXR750 track bike. When purchased, it had distilled water with no additives and no problems. At the end of the summer, he drained the water and replaced it with green, phosphate free auto parts store antifreeze for the winter. In the spring, he drained the cooling system and replaced it with a bottle of LP Ice Water and topped it off with distilled water. After a few track days, he noticed no visible damage but noticed a severe leak. He had to replace the radiator. He was told by the motorcycle radiator shop (are there such?) that the radiator corroded from the inside, and was due to any of the following: distilled water, LP Ice Water, SuperCool, distilled water with Water Wetter, etc. That they all cause corrosion. They recommend running straight tap water. According to the author of the letter, Royal Purple's Purple Ice states not to use distilled water. So, he goes on to ask what would cause the corrosion?

Andrew Trevitt (Senior Editor of Sport Rider) responded that there are two schools of thought when it comes to using distilled water in a radiator. One is that tap water has mineral content and with with those minerals comes ions and an electrical charge. The charge can lead to corrosion and the minerals can lead to deposit buildup over time. Distilled water has no minerals and no charge to lead to corrosion.

The second is that because distilled water has no mineral content it is more apt to initiate corrosion, as there are no minerals in the water to balance out any chemical reactions.

Mr. Trevitt (Senior Editor) forwarded the letter to Royal Purple and asked for a comment. The company responded that under normal use, chemically, distilled/demineralized/deionoized can be corrosive to aluminum components. This is due to the fact that the water is stripped of all minerals (being left with just about only hydrogen and oxygen, H20 ) and the water has a chemical need to replace the minerals, it is hungry so to speak and it will happily take the aluminum. This is a chemical attack. Further, they state that the cooling tubes and fins are aluminum and don't need much corrosion to leak. The OEM recommendation (in the gixxer I presume) is a 50 percent water and 50% antifreeze mix.

The response goes on to say that distilled water is a holdover from when cooling systems consisted of brass/copper radiators and steel in the engine and water pump. The Royal Purple company recommends filtered drinking water or tap water. They prefer cheap grocery store bottled water. They recommend replacement every four to five years (say what?!?!?!?)

The article states that the other common form of corrosive attack is electrical. Because of all the electrical components, stray voltage often finds it way into the coolant system. If the radiator is not properly grounded, over time the electrolytic action will remove aluminum and pinholes can occur in the radiators thin sections. The cooling system should be checked for voltage with anything above 300 millvolts considered too high. Additional ground of the radiator should be installed.

[Zero Knievel]

Not surprising.

Water is a natural solvent. Most don't stop and think about that. Softened water cleans better because it has had the hard minerals removed.

It's similar to needing isotonic water for cleaning wounds. Hypo and Hypertonic water (low salt/high salt) actually damages cells. It's not that different with metals.

[rockmeupto125]

Nicely informative article. I'm sure many of us realize the logic of this but fail to connect the dots and see the "obviousness" in the real world situation. Thanks for posting this.

[Furbird]

People familiar with pools know this as well. The cleanest pools don't have a bunch of crap in them. Water is naturally balanced. It's once you start messing with it that things go wrong.

[XXBirdSlapper]

Curious if de-ionized water would technically be the best choice. Frankly I see little issue if you use antifreeze, but the bike referenced was a track bike with water only...

[Chewtoy]

Have been running straight distilled and water wetter in the track car for years, only time I replaced a radiator was due to a debris hit.

Am running anti freeze in the bike b/c it has less water to freeze and crack expensive parts.

For what it's worth.

[Zero Knievel]

Well, a lot depends on where you get your water. Distilled does not = clean. Distilling only removes certain impurities...not all of them...some sellers might do more to purify the end product than others. It may also depend on the type of metal in the radiator. I do think I've seen manuals specifically warning to NOT use distilled water for certain functions and other manuals specifically calling for distilled water.

[JoWhee]

Distiller water is generally pure, due to the fact that distilling it removes all the minerals. As said above it is still a solvent, it's why commercial closed loop systems just use tap water (or softened) with anti corrosive additives. Distilled water mixed with antifreeze is ok, due to the additives it contains.

[Redbird]

My '01 XX spent 8-9 months a year running nothing but distilled/deionized water + Water Wetter for 3-4 years and 30k+ miles. It wasn't leaking when I tossed it off that mountain, but who knows, it might have been about to start...

[blackhawkxx]

No matter what the subject is, someone will say they did it without harm and I have no doubt that it is true. I found the subject interesting and if I had a track bike, I would look for an additive that would stop the corrosion but would be permitted by the track.

[Zero Knievel]

My '01 XX spent 8-9 months a year running nothing but distilled/deionized water + Water Wetter for 3-4 years and 30k+ miles. It wasn't leaking when I tossed it off that mountain, but who knows, it might have been about to start...

I don't know the composition of Water Wetter but perhaps it added just enough of something to resolve the problem of using distilled water alone?

[XXBirdSlapper]

My '01 XX spent 8-9 months a year running nothing but distilled/deionized water + Water Wetter for 3-4 years and 30k+ miles. It wasn't leaking when I tossed it off that mountain, but who knows, it might have been about to start...[/quote

Distilled or deionized??

[partsman]

Have been running straight distilled and water wetter in the track car for years, only time I replaced a radiator was due to a debris hit.

Am running anti freeze in the bike b/c it has less water to freeze and crack expensive parts.

For what it's worth.

My '01 XX spent 8-9 months a year running nothing but distilled/deionized water + Water Wetter for 3-4 years and 30k+ miles. It wasn't leaking when I tossed it off that mountain, but who knows, it might have been about to start...

Interesting article but still it doesn't convince me that distilled water is bad by a long shot.I'm with the above post and I'll add my own,my 600 ran for years on distilled and water wetter and my 1100 currently runs Engine Ice which has been in it oh 'bout 5-6 years,was on Liquid Performance before that.All good to this day.

I have seen straight tap water form buildup.

[Desert Goat Herder]

I ran distilled and water wetter in my FZ-1 for 137K miles except i the winter of course and no problems. Water Wetter is suppose to have corrosion protection as part of the treatment.

[Redbird]

Distilled or deionized??

Deionized when it was readily available, distilled when it wasn't, which was probably the case more often than not. There's probably not much of a difference in this particular application, IMO.

[slowrideCX]

One thing I have not seen anyone mention was the PH of the water used.

My well water has a high acid content to it naturally. My conditioning system treats the water for PH to bring it back to neutral.

Also hard water will over time just wear away the metal it runs over. My father has copper pipes that are now 41 yrs old and I am constantly replacing them as they wear out on the bottom and leak.

Distilled water shouldn't have this issue but ya just never know what has been done to the water when you buy it.

I have collected water from my dehumidifier to use for batteries and cooling systems. Never had any issues in anything.

[RXX]

OK, I won't give a real lecture on this but here are a few facts about this stuff. I won't give bullshit blanket statements, but as a person who pretty well understands the phenomena of solvents, solutes, roles of pH and buffers, solubility constants, differentials of solubilities as a function of temperatures, physiological manifestations of osmolalities and other bullshit, I think I can help.

As Zero said, water is a natural solvent, but only as a matter of definiton. Molten sodium, molten lead, hell, even a big wad of people will all be natural solvents in as much as if you surround ANYTHING by enough of anything else, there is a gradient of varying degrees of ANYTHING being incorporated into the anything else.

The cool thing about water is that is a near-universal standard for solubilities. Look at the CRC manual, and (IIRC) every molecule listed in the book has a water solubility index. I think it is fair to say, and any of you are welcome to find the exception(s) to the following statement: everything is soluble in water, that is, water is a universal solvent, to the following extent:

Even if the solubility approaches zero, it still exists.

When I was involved in research of vasoactive polypeptides, one of the tools I used was a device that double-distilled water. That shit was primo. pH 7 every time.

Anyway, put distilled water in your radiator, and guess what? Everything that is in contact with that water will dissolve into the water until it reaches its solubility constant at any particular temperature. (As a rule, as all of you know, an increase in temperature results in an increase of the solubility- again, not necessarily universal, I do not know of the exceptions, though)

OK, so you do not have distilled water in your radiator, right? Guess what? You have just radically altered the pH of the solution now. With no buffers, the pH swings could be pretty wide. So let's say that will probably (probably) alter the solubility constants even more, for better or worse. So at some point an equilibrium will be reached, except for the huge swings in temperatures. (I do not know if pressure differentials affect solubilities, nope, never had to deal with pressures)

So I bet the rocket scientists, the nucular engineers, and porsche engineers do this:

They inventory every component that comes into contact with the coolant, determine the ranges of solubility constants for each of these, and then try to match these with a coolant that will retard leaching into the coolant.

OK, I pulled most of this out of my ass, no data to support it. Just used a little basic chemistry, hands-on experience, and my knowledge of how women react.

I use 100% glycol in my radiator. 70+K.

[blackhawkxx]

and my knowledge of how women react.

You know how women react?

[Zero Knievel]

and my knowledge of how women react.

You know how women react?

Generally with a violent, exothermic reaction unless you have Ben & Jerry's at hand.

They inventory every component that comes into contact with the coolant, determine the ranges of solubility constants for each of these, and then try to match these with a coolant that will retard leaching into the coolant.

So, the ideal "water" for a radiator would have enough "mineral" content to balance well with the native metal of the target radiator and be Ph neutral.

You could probably make a killing selling bottles of "high-tech" radiator water to auto enthusiasts.

[Banshee]

RXX sounds about right. Pure water, by definition will have a pH (& pOH) of 7 and be neutral. But it will get some material dissolved in it & this then leads to the potential of electrlyic corrosion if dissimilar metals are present in the cooling system. How much & how fast will depend on lots of factors. The problem is that there are many factors that people don't realise matter, & they then make blanket statements to cover everything based on their particular (limited) experience. So what may well work well on one engine type won't for another, and any change you make could change the results.

Hence the reason for manufacturers to specify corrosion inhibitors & anti-freeze in most engines regardless of their users particular situation. I, for example, never see temps under freezing, yet the specified coolant still contains anti-freeze.

As for his knowledge of how women react, perhaps he just read the MSDS...

[OrganDonor]

It's similar to needing isotonic water for cleaning wounds. Hypo and Hypertonic water (low salt/high salt) actually damages cells. It's not that different with metals.

Which is why we run straight tap water into IV lines.