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Ready for ZXXX


IcePrick

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Well, shit. This is a better solution than the machined bearing cup, and it's going to cost me a lot of money. Thanks for nothing, Mike. :icon_biggrin:

Sorry!!! Maybe sell your triple on .com? :icon_twisted:

I got the RC51 upper for $25 on ebay... the 929/954 lower was about $175 though, I think (ebay also). The next project, which I might skip entirely, is roller bearings as opposed to the existing ball bearings I re-used from the 929 triple - they were in fine shape, though.

I've had a bunch of other projects that have snuck in front of this one, so I haven't done steering stops or tried out the key switch alignment yet. I swore that was going to be this week, but a TW200 refresh for a friend became more complex, as always. Maybe I can manage some time tomorrow morning.

That's as close to bolt-on as I think it's going to get - I would like to see an SP1 lower and how that fits with the steering stops before I make the lofty claim that the 929/954 lower triple is THE way to go. I wouldn't mind trying a 929/954 upper either, just to see how it looks. For now, I've invested enough in parts that are laying around the garage never to be used... the cost of "research".

I can probably get ~$200 for the ZX14 LSL top triple which means only an additional ~$350 for the RC51 LSL top triple. :icon_wall:

:icon_biggrin:

Shit I'm about ready to make you an adapter. Thought you would have had it done by now. You know the only thing different is the size of the hole for the stem. I could make a bushing for the LSL you have, and you get a RVT bottom. Or 29 or 58.

Things that make you go HUMMMM.

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I can probably get ~$200 for the ZX14 LSL top triple which means only an additional ~$350 for the RC51 LSL top triple. :icon_wall:

:icon_biggrin:

Is there any possibility that some of the new fully-adjustable clipons would work for you? I think you could get them waaaay back and waaaay up. At RedEye's suggestion, I picked up a set of these:

http://www.dan-moto.com/DM_US/3d-clip-on-5...h5ef5j16keve1d0

They are almost infinitely adjustable, I think you could even put the riser aft of the fork tube. That has to be a 2" pullback. I haven't messed with them enough to know for certain, but I'm removing the 929 triple stops today so I should be bolting everything back up tonight, hopefully. If so, I'll take some pics.

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Okay, after lopping off the 929 stops, it appears that the SP1 lower may be a better choice. As it stands now, on my '97, the lower 929 clamp bolts contact the oil cooler a little before what would be full lock. The SP1 lower has the clamp itself offset further from the bottom of the stem, and it looks like the clamp bolts are rotated outboard some. The combination of the two should allow for a little more clearance with the oil cooler and hopefully get it to full lock. There's this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/00-06-Honda-RC51-L...050&vxp=mtr

These things don't show up on eBay very frequently, and they want a pretty penny. I guess it is a little better than this:

http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/oem-schematic/2

$341. Especially since the eBay job comes with all the hardware - although you should be able to reuse all the BB's hardware.

For all I know, the SP1 lower will have other clearance issues, though.

I don't know how any of this impacts an FI bike, isn't the oil cooler in a different spot on them?

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I can probably get ~$200 for the ZX14 LSL top triple which means only an additional ~$350 for the RC51 LSL top triple. :icon_wall:

:icon_biggrin:

Is there any possibility that some of the new fully-adjustable clipons would work for you? I think you could get them waaaay back and waaaay up. At RedEye's suggestion, I picked up a set of these:

http://www.dan-moto.com/DM_US/3d-clip-on-5...h5ef5j16keve1d0

They are almost infinitely adjustable, I think you could even put the riser aft of the fork tube. That has to be a 2" pullback. I haven't messed with them enough to know for certain, but I'm removing the 929 triple stops today so I should be bolting everything back up tonight, hopefully. If so, I'll take some pics.

Some nice looking clip-ons. been looking at making myself a set of custom handlebars. just running into trouble on how to attach them to the upper..

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Some nice looking clip-ons. been looking at making myself a set of custom handlebars. just running into trouble on how to attach them to the upper..

My only concern with them is if they will tighten up enough to stay put. I'm tempted to get them adjusted the way I want them and have them welded into position (on all except the fork tubes, duh).

Even doing that, $100 isn't bad for the materials to get them set up perfectly and then TIG them solid.

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My only concern with them is if they will tighten up enough to stay put. I'm tempted to get them adjusted the way I want them and have them welded into position (on all except the fork tubes, duh).

Mine came with "permanent" threadlocker. If yours didn't, get some red loctite and apply it after you get the bars set where you want them -- at each joint remove one bolt at a time, apply loctite, snug it up, then do the other bolt and torque them down. With permanent threadlocker you don't have to worry about the bolts coming loose. At my old job we once got some bolts with threadlocker pre-applied that was supposed to be the same strength as blue loctite . . . it wasn't. We didn't find out until we tried to remove them after they'd set. The bolts were in threaded inserts in 1/8 aluminum sheet and most of the time either the bolt head would snap off, or the nutserts would spin in place before the threadlocker let go. You can heat up the bolts with a soldering iron to release the loctite if you need to (a trick we didn't find out until far too late).

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My only concern with them is if they will tighten up enough to stay put. I'm tempted to get them adjusted the way I want them and have them welded into position (on all except the fork tubes, duh).

Mine came with "permanent" threadlocker. If yours didn't, get some red loctite and apply it after you get the bars set where you want them -- at each joint remove one bolt at a time, apply loctite, snug it up, then do the other bolt and torque them down. With permanent threadlocker you don't have to worry about the bolts coming loose. At my old job we once got some bolts with threadlocker pre-applied that was supposed to be the same strength as blue loctite . . . it wasn't. We didn't find out until we tried to remove them after they'd set. The bolts were in threaded inserts in 1/8 aluminum sheet and most of the time either the bolt head would snap off, or the nutserts would spin in place before the threadlocker let go. You can heat up the bolts with a soldering iron to release the loctite if you need to (a trick we didn't find out until far too late).

I'm not so much worried about the bolts staying tight, it's the small amount of clamping/surface area versus the amount of leverage you have on the bars. Even torqued pretty hard, it seems like it could still move. Not wanting to honk on those little threads too much.

If you have put some miles down with no issues, though, I'll trust your results.

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Some nice looking clip-ons. been looking at making myself a set of custom handlebars. just running into trouble on how to attach them to the upper..

My only concern with them is if they will tighten up enough to stay put. I'm tempted to get them adjusted the way I want them and have them welded into position (on all except the fork tubes, duh).

Even doing that, $100 isn't bad for the materials to get them set up perfectly and then TIG them solid.

I agree, I had to many "oh Shit" moments on my bicycle as a kid. Get them adjusted, ride for an hour, adjust if needed, and ride again.. once you found the perfect spot. Yank them off and tig weld them up.

Wish my wifes uncle still worked. He had his own machine shop. could make some bad ass toys.

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Some nice looking clip-ons. been looking at making myself a set of custom handlebars. just running into trouble on how to attach them to the upper..

My only concern with them is if they will tighten up enough to stay put. I'm tempted to get them adjusted the way I want them and have them welded into position (on all except the fork tubes, duh).

Even doing that, $100 isn't bad for the materials to get them set up perfectly and then TIG them solid.

I agree, I had to many "oh Shit" moments on my bicycle as a kid. Get them adjusted, ride for an hour, adjust if needed, and ride again.. once you found the perfect spot. Yank them off and tig weld them up.

+2

I bought a set of those bars for my SV650 and could never get them tight enough not to slip under moderate to hard braking. I replaced all the bolts with some better grade (not Chinese) versions and it seemed to be better, but I never tried to stand the bike on its nose to see if they would hold. Swapped back to stock for a track day and have never put them back on. They were a bitch to get adjusted evenly and I just don't trust them. Further proof you get what you pay for.

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If you have put some miles down with no issues, though, I'll trust your results.

I had one slip once, because I forgot to torque it. I tightened it up and haven't had any issues in a couple thousand km of hard riding. Deliberately hard, remember I was trying to create worst-case-scenarios for front suspension travel while adjusting my new forks. And I haven't used loctite except for attaching the bars to the clamps, because I'm still fiddling with bar position, but I do recheck the torque every now and then.

However, with all the possible bar positions, it's easily possible to set them up in such a way that you could be applying a lot more rotational force around a joint than I am. Taking the risers off and attaching the bars directly to the fork tube clamps is probably a worst-case setup. Also keep in mind that I'm not a huge guy, about 185 in gear, and I have very long arms, so I don't normally rest a lot of my weight on the bars. YMMV.

If you do get the bars welded, I still think it's a small price to pay to have perfectly custom fitted clipons. Printing out a series of hash marks with a label maker to make a reference scale at each joint makes the adjustment process a lot less painful :icon_evilgrin:

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Thanks for the tips Redeye.

Another trick, after final adjustment, could be to drill and tap a hole through each clamp and part way into each stem (the aluminum is very soft), and put in a 5 or 6mm bolt to prevent rotation.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Messing around with clipon adjustment. The XX euro switch is problematic, with the way the cables exit the housing interfering with the brake lever travel.

I ordered a ZX throttle, cables, and switch on eBay to see if that solves it.

The clipon position I finally got seems perfect - better than VFR bars - and no tank or fairing interference. I thought that was going to be a difficult compromise, but there's actually a lot of area for adjustment that won't interfere with either.

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Mods please delete this post.

cheers

Did you get your answers. Saw them on my phone, and was going to answer them,

If you want to talk about them call. Anytime.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Took it for a test ride tonight. The rear brake is weak, but that could be the used pads that came with the used eBay caliper I bought. No function issues whatsoever, though.

More unnerving, the 929/SP1 combination gave a weird feel on turn-in - it really wanted to turn in after it got off center, very "quick". Uncomfortably so. I don't have the lower fairing on yet, so I don't have a body height measurement. I have the top of the forks flush with the clipons, I thought that would be conservative.

I'm going to try removing the shim over the rear shock to slow the steering down a little.

Any thoughts?

The ZX throttle and switchgear is going to be too much of a hassle. I happened to glance at the SuperHawk as I was thinking, and it looks like that throttle and switchgear will be perfect. $44 later on eBay...

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check your sag first, but the adjustments for preload, is the problem,,, screw them all the way in and see what it feels like.

The rear brake, needs a bigger piston in the master. problem is the one off the bike you got the caliper from aint gonna bolt up. So the size is what you need and then find one that will. I am in the same boat. Looking at some way to make an adapter, too. Somehow. My ideas on this are lacking a straight forward solution. I have the zx rear master, and have bought some others. Taken apart some, but the number is on the side. I ran into this on the quad when I put the four piston calipers on and found a goldwing master looked like the xx but was much bigger, like 3/4". I would have thought the xx would have larger masters with the number of pistons it uses.

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  • 3 weeks later...

With a little rewiring, the SuperHawk switchgear and throttle work perfectly and look stock.

I arrived at the same conclusion on the rear brake master. I'll have to look at the options for that, but it is ride-able in the interim. I rode the 990ADV the other day, and after being on the SuperHawk as a commuter and the XX with the incorrect master, the 990 seemed like it had power brakes. I'd love to have that on the XX.

I forgot that when the Ohlins went in the back, it was quite tall enough and didn't need a shim. So I just raised the front, and the steering seems perfect - I could maybe even drop it a bit. I managed to get a good bar position, nice and comfy.

Rides good on the highway - still messing with the suspension. Haven't seen any interference issues with the 190 rear or the brake setup.

Mostly done - looks like I'll be able to ride an XX to an XX meet again!!! :icon_dance:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Nicely done Mike. Love the front fender. And the bars. So how do you like the ride? We have been looking at tree offsets, and trail, and supposing handling differences. Mine feels much different, with the rc trees than the zx. Just now getting the forks adjusted in the trees and the preload back to what it was. No corners in the area to ride to see if I can get it back to what it was with one turn preload to change from highway to twisties. The xx has a 35 offset and the zx has 32 and the rc51 has 30 as well as the TSR and the zx10 has 25 the rr has 25 too. Mine feels a lot less than that difference. Enough to be thinking about a dampener.

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Thanks, but I was just following instructions. :icon_biggrin:

The bars don't look as nice in person. Just... makes me want to check the 12 bolts pinching everything in place about once an hour. I might actually back them up with nylocs.

Hard to describe the handling. I have the preload all the way out, and I think I could bring the forks back to flush with the clip-ons if I cranked some in. Seems fairly neutral riding it back and forth to work now, but before I dropped the fork tubes in the trees it was a little scary once you started a turn - it wanted to suck the steering all the way to lock. I wanted to start as conservatively as possible, so I set it up like so once I was ready to go over 10mph. Next weekend will definitely be a learning curve with different loading scenarios.

I have the compression set fairly light, as I think it feels a little harsh. Maybe new springs are in my future...

Not sure if the 190/55 was a mistake, that's what was stock on the wheel on the '07 ZX10R. I'm thinking the rim might push a 180 out a little and flatten the radius some. Clears okay, though.

Ordered a rear master from a ZX10R, hopefully that will solve the pedal effort issue (if it bolts up). Need to find a mount for the front m/c and that about has it.

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I have the forks in the trees very close to what they were in the zx trees now. About 2 inches sticking above the top of the rc tree. The measurement of the body to ground on the centerstand is 4 3/4 inches with the preload in the center. Dropping the forks did not change that number as much as I thought. I put the stand on the TSR and it was above 6" but with as high as the rear is on it probably pushing down the front a little. Just to see.

I had the preload all the way out too with the forks flush with the top of the clipons and felt the same, better than where the preloads were supposed to be, so dropping them helped to regain what the zx felt like with the preload in the middle.

I also started out with the compression and rebound settings in the middle. And adjusted two clicks at a time to feel the difference, on a road that had curves.

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This past weekend I gave it a fairly thorough workout at T-NeXXt. I felt the brakes were excellent, and the front suspension was very stiff/oversprung. Joe was kind enough to do an evaluation ride and arrived at the same conclusions, adding that the brakes seemed to shake abruptly under heavy braking. I reproduced what he felt with the brakes later on the ride.

Today I did some research on the ZX forums, and found that most people felt the ZX14 to be under-sprung and under-valved. Joe and I had discussed possible differences in the weight bias in the 14 being the culprit, possibly being more heavily sprung than the 'bird due to a more forward bias. Stock, the 14 carries 5w fork oil (a popular upgrade on the 14 chassis is to run 15 or 20 weight) and .900kg/mm springs. Since the 'bird had .890 stock, and most consider the 'bird under-sprung, I began to question whether I was feeling what I thought I was feeling. I messed with the compression and rebound in a number of different combinations, all with the same results: harsh. It seemed like if anything, the 14 forks would still be under-sprung and under-valved when mounted on the XX.

Loosen the pinch bolts and back off the axle nut... bounce, bounce, bounce...hmmm. That seems better. Maybe a little too "boingy" - a technical term I learned this weekend from an ST rider :icon_wave: . Oh, the compression and rebound are all the way out - set back to recommended settings for the 14. While I didn't actually measure while I was home for lunch, race sag felt closer to what it should be. I'll ride it this week and report back...

As for the shake in the brakes, I *think* the forks may actually have been bottomed as the preload was all the way out and the compression was (at that time) completely out with rebound still at the ZX forum's recommended setting - 3 clicks out. This may have had the effect of allowing the front to "ratchet" down to a bottomed position, thus leaving the only flex in the system the tire and available traction (thanks to Hank for that theory). My interpretation of the feeling was that the front was on the verge of traction loss due to being connected to the bike's mass via a fully-compressed suspension. Joe, am I crazy? (That question is limited to this particular issue!)

The ZX10 rear master was waiting for me, so I'll have rear brakes for TeXXt. WooHoo!

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