Zero Knievel Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I was going to do the loom fix on my XX, and I'm more than happy to just inspect, clean, and bundle up, but I started with checking my R/R. Here's what I found. While the R/R did not fail on me, it's toast. The wires to the harness side seem fine. The plug for the yellow stator wires was damaged (or certainly so by the time I got the wires out of it), but the wires themselves seem in fine condition. Anyone know where I can get a replacement stator plug for the harness side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Regarding the wire loom fix. I need help finding it. The thread said that I had to raise the gas tank to get more room to work on it. Other than saying it's a "20 pole connector," I'm just not seeing it. Here's a couple pics of the area I've been looking in, any help finding it would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryXX Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It is in front of the rear passenger foot peg. It is under the tape of the main wire harness at the bottom. You can feel the square shape and that is where you have to carefully cut out the connector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furbird Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 See that lump of black tape in your picture just in front of the foreward-most bolt of the rear passenger peg mount? That's the monster for the ground side. The power block is just like it but green, and it is in the harness taped inside the frame on the clutch side of the bike by the cylinder head. I learned that when I had to bypass it on the dragbike. That bike was so bad I had to replace entire lengths of wiring in it due to corrosion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 See that lump of black tape in your picture just in front of the foreward-most bolt of the rear passenger peg mount? That's the monster for the ground side. The power block is just like it but green, and it is in the harness taped inside the frame on the clutch side of the bike by the cylinder head. I learned that when I had to bypass it on the dragbike. That bike was so bad I had to replace entire lengths of wiring in it due to corrosion. So I'm looking a green block with wires in it UNDER the fuel tank, correct? I just checked and I do see a rectangular shape in the harness just behind the engine block. It's totally wrapped up and looks good, so I hope it'll be a quick open, clean and close up operation. I really don't want to cut and permanently splice wires if it's held up fine so far. I thought the block I had to work on was by the passenger peg, but I don't see one there. BTW, on my old R/R, what made the wires on the R/R side degrade like that but no damage on the harness side? If there are preventative steps I should take on the replacement, I'd like to do it when I put it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furbird Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 You have to do the ground one FIRST, as it is the one that is more susceptible to water intrusion since water slings on it from the rear tire. In the picture you posted, that should be the connector, that big, black square lump right in front of the rear peg bolt. It's taped to the harness, it's not out in the open. Slice that open and you should see a brown connector with a cap on the end of it. The green one up by the engine is the positive side one, and it's rare that it needs to be bypassed. I had to do the one on my dragbike because the previous owners dogged the crap out of it, left it outside in the rain uncovered, and it was (and still is) missing the cowl finishers under the handlebars so water got directly on the connector. If you still have issues after fixing the ground (brown) connector, then you'll have to look at the positive (green) connector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Zero...the block is completely encased in tape. Start from the back of the bike instead of the top. It is directly above the chain almost where the swingarm bolts to the frame. There is only one place there is a big lump in the harness. I didn't take the tank off at all. Note...disconnect the battery before you start messing with wires. You can short out anything and everything including the ECM from the test loom. pic of the connector http://www.flyingferrets.eclipse.co.uk/inf...l/connector.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Zero...the block is completely encased in tape. Start from the back of the bike instead of the top. It is directly above the chain almost where the swingarm bolts to the frame. There is only one place there is a big lump in the harness. I didn't take the tank off at all. Note...disconnect the battery before you start messing with wires. You can short out anything and everything including the ECM from the test loom. Thanks. I opted to mess with almost every other electrical connector on the bike first. I took off the instrument cluster and used electrical parts cleaner to do the two connectors. I then slathered on dielectric grease and put it back together. I took apart that thick bundle of connectors under the instrument cluster and did the same there. I used that some self-bonding rubber tape to close off the protective sleeve from both ends. My suspicion is that something getting in there (water?) caused my instrument and light problem last summer. I checked the blue connector bundle next to that. I went through the wire bundle right above the gearbox. All of the wires were good and (for all practical purposes) clean. Gave them all a cleaning and a fresh blob of dielectric grease. Then I tried tackling the brown connector. I had to take off the passenger peg mount to have more freedom to work on it. Other than a touch of junk on the back of a couple of wires, it was good. I used the electrical parts cleaner on it and slathered on clear RTV sealant...pressing it into the back of the connector to try and seal it off from air and moisture. I put on more dielectric grease and put the cap back onto the plug, and once the clear stuff hardens up, I'll bind it all back up. Would it be a good idea to grab one of those silica gel packs and bind it in with the loom connector so it absorbs any moisture that gets in there? *** I'm still trying to figure what to do about the R/R. When I bought some wire plugs online I got connectors for 1, 2 and 3 wire connections, but I'm not sure if the plastic for this purpose should be something different. Ideally, I'd like to find a replacement harness-side plug or even a old cannibalized harness with a good plug I can just remove wires from and replace with my own. Here's a couple pics of what I have next to the OEM part. What do you all think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I was going to do the loom fix on my XX, and I'm more than happy to just inspect, clean, and bundle up, but I started with checking my R/R. Here's what I found. While the R/R did not fail on me, it's toast. The wires to the harness side seem fine. The plug for the yellow stator wires was damaged (or certainly so by the time I got the wires out of it), but the wires themselves seem in fine condition. Anyone know where I can get a replacement stator plug for the harness side? Your R/R is likely fine, unless you've figured out differently... It was likely just not making enough voltage, because it was only getting 2 phases of the 3-phase from the stator... As for the stator plug... Eh, I'd just use the insulated spades, or just straight solder the wires together, if it was me... It would only need to come apart if you replace the stator in the future, and then you would just either un-solder them, or cut it off and do it again... Boom, no more corrosion problems at that joint, ever... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Your R/R is likely fine, unless you've figured out differently... It was likely just not making enough voltage, because it was only getting 2 phases of the 3-phase from the stator... As for the stator plug... Eh, I'd just use the insulated spades, or just straight solder the wires together, if it was me... It would only need to come apart if you replace the stator in the future, and then you would just either un-solder them, or cut it off and do it again... Boom, no more corrosion problems at that joint, ever... Thanks. Unless someone thinks otherwise, I'll just adapt the harness to the 3-wire plug I have to use since it makes an easy way to attach/separate the R/R. The R/R itself might be fine....voltage always seemed to remain in spec, but since it appears to be the OEM part and I have a good one ready to go, I might just cut off the stator plug and clean the wires....keep it for an emergency spare, but the way the yellow wires turned brown gives me pause. When in doubt.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp11XX Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Same as MitchT's thread...solder and heat shrink. Don't even bother with a new plug....just a connection to go bad that you can really afford to do without. If you're in the midst of a R/R or stator replacement, chances are that you have a soldering iron handy too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Same as MitchT's thread...solder and heat shrink. Don't even bother with a new plug....just a connection to go bad that you can really afford to do without. If you're in the midst of a R/R or stator replacement, chances are that you have a soldering iron handy too.... Maybe, but as the R/R is a component prone to need replacement and the way to test the stator means getting to the stator wires, wouldn't using disconnectable plug be a better option? I could always slather some clear silicone into the base of the plugs to seal out moisture and dirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp11XX Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 It isn't just exposure that affects these connectors. Any mechanically coupled connector takes a real beating when the amperage goes up. The amperage load breaking down the connector causes the conditions that make the R/R and the stator more susceptible and prone to overheat/overcurrent and early failure. It's a catch-22 so to speak. You'll be doing all systems and your own faith in the reliability a favor to solder and make those connections as solid as possible. It will add an additional 15 minutes to changing out the R/R or stator in the future. Well worth it IMHO. Edit P.S. - The R/R output side of the harness is not the typical problem, only the three yellow wires coming from the stator. Keep the output connector as OEM. Solder the AC input yellow wires. Everything will then be peachy keen again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 It isn't just exposure that affects these connectors. Any mechanically coupled connector takes a real beating when the amperage goes up. The amperage load breaking down the connector causes the conditions that make the R/R and the stator more susceptible and prone to overheat/overcurrent and early failure. It's a catch-22 so to speak. You'll be doing all systems and your own faith in the reliability a favor to solder and make those connections as solid as possible. It will add an additional 15 minutes to changing out the R/R or stator in the future. Well worth it IMHO. Edit P.S. - The R/R output side of the harness is not the typical problem, only the three yellow wires coming from the stator. Keep the output connector as OEM. Solder the AC input yellow wires. Everything will then be peachy keen again.... Thanks. That DOES make more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think you made the wrong decision trying to seal the test loom connector back up. It is a super easy fix. Just zip tie all alike wires together. Clip them off. Strip wires. Solder together. Put some shrink over the ends and wrap it all up. Now that you 'think' you have 'sealed' everything back up, you will always be wondering if the problem will creep in again. If you solder you're golden forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think you made the wrong decision trying to seal the test loom connector back up. It is a super easy fix. Just zip tie all alike wires together. Clip them off. Strip wires. Solder together. Put some shrink over the ends and wrap it all up. Now that you 'think' you have 'sealed' everything back up, you will always be wondering if the problem will creep in again. If you solder you're golden forever. I thought about doing the "permanent" fix, but the instructions got me fuddled. The block has 20 poles, 19 wires go into it and within the male portion of the block it joins one row of 10 on the one side (all green earth related wires)and 3 lots of 3 on the other side with one unused terminal. Cut the wires off the connector on the 3x3 side first..they are in their own colours so you don't get to mix them up. When I stripped the insulation off the copper wire was black for a fair way up, there isn't really enough length to try and cut them back to perfect shiny copper so I cleaned them with a small wire brush and contact cleaner. Soldered the three wires together then used 2 layers of heatshrink tubing to seal them For the main block of 10 the easiest way is to leave the main thicker earth on its own, solder the remaining 9 into three blocks of three. Used a small piece of heatshrink to hold all of them together then dipped them into a "thimble" full of heated/melted solder, sprayed a bit of water on it to cool it down and ended up with all ten soldered together. Heatshrinked them, covered everthing in silicone grease and taped everything up to the main loom using self amalging rubber tape to seal it. When I counted the wires on my connector, I had 18, not 19. At that point, I didn't want to start cutting until I was sure what was what. I'll need to take photos and be more complete in describing the wires, but I don't want to start cutting and soldering wires together until I'm certain which ones I should be working with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 There are bus connectors that link all the pins together. Group the wires together with a ziptie according to how the bus connectors are linking everything together. What is together stays together. What is apart stays apart. That simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 There are bus connectors that link all the pins together. Group the wires together with a ziptie according to how the bus connectors are linking everything together. What is together stays together. What is apart stays apart. That simple. Rather than risk effing it all up, here's the configuration my harness has.... Notes:  "SPOTS" = 2 spots close together         "SPOT" = 1 spot by itself 01 - 11 02 - 12 03 - 13 04 - 14 05 - 15 06 - 16 07 - 17 08 - 18 09 - 19 10 - 20 POST 1  - White w/Green stripe & Silver spot POST 2  - White w/Green stripe & Silver spot POST 3  - White w/Silver spots POST 4  - Yellow w/Red stripe & Silver spot POST 5  - Yellow w/Red stripe & Silver spot POST 6  - empty POST 7  - empty POST 8  - Green w/Silver spots POST 9  - Green w/Silver spots POST 10 - Green (very thick wire) POST 11 - Green w/Silver spot POST 12 - Green w/Silver spot (thicker wire) POST 13 - Green w/Silver spot (thicker wire) POST 14 - Green w/Silver spot POST 15 - Green w/Silver spot POST 16 - Green w/Silver spots POST 17 - Green (thicker wire) POST 18 - Green w/Silver spots POST 19 - Green w/Silver spots POST 20 - Green (very thick wire) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You are overthinking this. Group like wires together. Keep the others separate. This is a job for a monkey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp11XX Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 His monkey won't come back....he spanked it too much.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 You are overthinking this. Group like wires together. Keep the others separate. This is a job for a monkey. I'm sure that I am, but once I start cutting wires...I'm committed. Presuming that thickness of wire has no bearing.... Combine Wire 1 & 2 (White w/Green stripe & Silver spot) Combine Wire 4 & 5 (Yellow w/Red stripe & Silver spot) Combine 11, 12, 13, 14 & 15 (Green w/Silver spot) Combine 8, 9, 16, 18 & 19 (Green w/Silver spots) Combine 10, 17 & 20 (Green) That leaves the wire at Post 3 (White w/Silver spots) which has no pairing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXera Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The cap to the connector with the wires in it determines how your wires are grouped together. If you will look in the base of the cap at the spade connectors, you will notice that some are tied together, then there is a break in the electrical connection. That is how you decide how your wires are grouped together. I replaced mine and it had 18 wires in it also, but I guess I threw it away or I would take a better picture for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 The cap to the connector with the wires in it determines how your wires are grouped together. If you will look in the base of the cap at the spade connectors, you will notice that some are tied together, then there is a break in the electrical connection. That is how you decide how your wires are grouped together. I replaced mine and it had 18 wires in it also, but I guess I threw it away or I would take a better picture for you. That helps a lot. I'll check the cap closely tonight to see how the wires should match up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Okay, pulling the cap, here's how I see the breaks. 3 pegs - break - 4 pegs - break - 3 pegs. The other side seemed to have no breaks in it at all. This would mean I bundle Posts 1-3 (all the white wires). Posts 4 & 5 (the yellow wires). Posts 8-10 (the green wires, assorted). The ten assorted green wires from the other side (Posts 11-20) form one huge bundle. Correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXera Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Since I don't have my old cap, I can't say for sure, but I would bet you are correct. These pictures might help you out a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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