Upper back excersise with minimal forearm/elbow involvement

[Redbird]

Since I began lifting weights I've had off and on issues with my elbows/forearms getting really sore. I've self diagnosed this as a minor case of tendonitis and taken steps to avoid it. Sticking to compound movements and avoiding isolation type stuff for biceps seems to help a lot (I haven't done a curl with any kind of significant weight in months).

But it's interfering with trying to get a decent upper back workout in. Most everything I know involves a certain degree of strain on the elbow, some more intense than others. My elbows being an issue is making it difficult to effectively work my back.

Anyone have any suggestions for exercises that can work around this? I've got dumbbells, an adjustable bench and high a low single pulleys to work with.

[DaveK]

I have no advice for you but funny that you post this today. Last night was my first ever legs workout and my back is killing me this morning.

[Redbird]

Lower back? That's common enough and nothing to worry about as long as it's just the muscles that are sore. A good leg workout can (and should, IMO) hit the lower back pretty good.

A roman chair is great for working your core and has helped me keep my lower back from being too much of a weak point in my leg workout.

[DaveK]

Yep, lower back. Had to roll over out of bed this morning. Couldn't sit up.

I see that machine...not sure I'm ready for it...but I'll give it a test tonight at the gym.

Hopefully I am not required to take my shirt off like that guy...

Thanks for the tip.

[RichardCranium]

Since I began lifting weights I've had off and on issues with my elbows/forearms getting really sore. I've self diagnosed this as a minor case of tendonitis and taken steps to avoid it. Sticking to compound movements and avoiding isolation type stuff for biceps seems to help a lot (I haven't done a curl with any kind of significant weight in months).

But it's interfering with trying to get a decent upper back workout in. Most everything I know involves a certain degree of strain on the elbow, some more intense than others. My elbows being an issue is making it difficult to effectively work my back.

Anyone have any suggestions for exercises that can work around this? I've got dumbbells, an adjustable bench and high a low single pulleys to work with.

Just a few random thoughts.

Bent over rows. Just bend at about a 45 degree angle and use a wide grip. You will be rowing at about the same angle you would be pressing a decline bench press.

Wide grip pull ups.

Seated rows.

Generally pushing exercises hurt my elbows more that pulling but if those hurt you can still hit your traps and upper back some by doing deadlifts. You should be doing deadlifts anyway. Using straps might help alleviate some of the strain from your forearms.

Another one that I can feel in my upper back that isn't for the upper back is front squats. I put the bar across my chest and shoulders and then cross my forearms. If you do a search you should be able to find good examples of what I mean. I cant do them the other way as it really stresses my wrists.

[Redbird]

Sounds like you're the opposite of me, I've no trouble with the pushing, just pulling.

Wide grip pull ups (well, pull downs, 'cause I'm a pussy and use the machine) and seated rows are already in there, as are dead lifts. The pull downs work really well until that last 10-15% where my biceps engage more- I've just been cheating at the end of the stroke if my elbows act up. Better than nothing, I tell myself.

Will try the bent over rows, anything with a wide grip seems to be better on the elbows. I'll look into the front squats as well, thanks.

You ever try some sort of reverse fly?

[RichardCranium]

Sounds like you're the opposite of me, I've no trouble with the pushing, just pulling.

Wide grip pull ups (well, pull downs, 'cause I'm a pussy and use the machine) and seated rows are already in there, as are dead lifts. The pull downs work really well until that last 10-15% where my biceps engage more- I've just been cheating at the end of the stroke if my elbows act up. Better than nothing, I tell myself.

Will try the bent over rows, anything with a wide grip seems to be better on the elbows. I'll look into the front squats as well, thanks.

You ever try some sort of reverse fly?

I don't do them but they are a good exercise IMO and would be great for what you are wanting.

Also on the pull-ups/pull downs. If you have a pull up bar you might get a set of bands to assist. I have a set of three that are different sizes so I can adjust my level of assistance. I loop one over the bar and then back thru itself. Then stretch it down and stick my knee in it. That way I can do more reps and with good form on chins and pull ups.

[Pat830]

barbell pullover

[Redbird]

barbell pullover

Thanks, I'll be giving that a shot.

Brett, where do you get the bands, and what "weights" do they come in? I looked for something like that early on for a different purpose, but all of what I found locally was pretty lightweight stuff- like for women doing workouts with a door handle type stuff.

[billypf]

First, I would really focus on stretching.

1. Do a good warm up and then a dynamic stretching sequence.

2. Try to keep your muscle loose with stretching between sets.

3. Finish your workout with static stenching.

4. You will also want to stretch again the following day.

Second, you will also want to consider that there is significantly different amount of torque depending on the angle of your joint that you are working. Through your range of motion the force that you have to exert changes. Based on this, You may want to try to break up your sets so that you aren't working your whole range of motion at once, but in separate parts. This way you do not use the whole motion of your joint and can match the weight to the mechanics of your body. If you look at modern machines they use cams to accomplish this same concept.

[Redbird]

First, I would really focus on stretching...

Good point. I'm decent about stretching major muscle groups, but I don't even think about my arms. Addressing the actual problem might be better than trying to work around it, eh?

Second, you will also want to consider that there is significantly different amount of torque depending on the angle of your joint that you are working.

I know what you mean. This is why I haven't been doing curls anymore. They load my forearm and elbow in a much more extreme way than just using my arm for pulling.

Gonna be changing some things up. Thanks everyone for the input.

[RichardCranium]

Brett, where do you get the bands, and what "weights" do they come in? I looked for something like that early on for a different purpose, but all of what I found locally was pretty lightweight stuff- like for women doing workouts with a door handle type stuff.

I got mine at academy. They were in a box. There are 3 flat bands. I had to tie the ends together. They come in red, green and blue weight. No idea what that represents but the red is super light, the blue is pretty strong and the green is in the middle.

[everydayrider99]

Heavy shrugs, wear a belt and straps. If you have dumbbells and a weight bench, set it at about a 60 degree angle and do shrugs that way. At the top of the shrug try to bend your elbows just a tiny bit and squeeze the upper back/rear delts as much as possible. 8-10 you'll be burning. Your forearms will be sore from lifting heavier, not any tendinitis issue. Good luck.

[01xxallen]

Lower back? That's common enough and nothing to worry about as long as it's just the muscles that are sore.

A roman chair is great for working your core and has helped me keep my lower back from being too much of a weak point in my leg workout.

+1 on the Roman chair. Years ago, when I injured my back, I went to a gym that had a roman chair. It looks like torture, but felt great.

After a while, I could hold a 50# barbell behind my neck and do 10 lifts just using my back. I've since thought about buying one.

[DeaconXX]

Roman chair is great for rehab, but only hits a small portion of the the posterior chain.

You guys are going to scoff, but the single best thing I've done for total back strength is deadlifts. I went from not being able to bend over my sink to pulling in the 500 range. I've had zero framers-elbow (I refuse to call it tennis elbow) or carpal tunnel issues with the motion.

Also, you can rig some nylon strap loops so that the pulling is done by the elbow and not held in the hand, that way you can do some rows.

[TuffguyF4i]

From someone that has had inflamation in my bicept tendons, i know what you are taking about. I had 2 excercises that i completely eliminated from my routine and (with self therapy) they have not come back.

Avoid: Straight bar curls.

These are not a natural movement. I replaced them with curl bar curls and dumbell hamercurls.

Avoid: Skull crushers for tricepts

These tore up my tris. I replaced them with dumbell skull crushers (palms facing in, lying down on a flat bench) which allow for nice fluid movements.

You need to take a couple advil and ice your sore areas after EVERY time they are irritated. Always advil than ice. You will have very quick recovery with this method.

I agree that Deadlifts (DL's) are hands down the absolute best back workout. They are not optional. Anyone looking to build a solid core MUST do DL's.

Think of it this way. DLs are to back as bench is to chest. They are that fundamental for a strong body and back. You cannot and must not avoid them.

As a side benefit to DL's, you work bicept as a secondary muscle group.

[TuffguyF4i]

Lower back? That's common enough and nothing to worry about as long as it's just the muscles that are sore. A good leg workout can (and should, IMO) hit the lower back pretty good.

A roman chair is great for working your core and has helped me keep my lower back from being too much of a weak point in my leg workout.

That is not a real strength training movement. If your back is so weak that this excercise makes you significantly stronger, you have a very weak back. Focus on the DL's and you will see huge improvements.

I assume the leg training you're taking about is squats? If squats are hitting your back that hard, you're either doing too much weight (and its dangerous to do that) or your form needs work.

[Redbird]

Wow, been a while since I checked this thread.

From someone that has had inflamation in my bicept tendons, i know what you are taking about. I had 2 excercises that i completely eliminated from my routine and (with self therapy) they have not come back.

Avoid: Straight bar curls.

These are not a natural movement. I replaced them with curl bar curls and dumbell hamercurls.

Avoid: Skull crushers for tricepts

These tore up my tris. I replaced them with dumbell skull crushers (palms facing in, lying down on a flat bench) which allow for nice fluid movements.

I pretty much don't do any isolation exercises anymore. I don't miss them and it doesn't seem to have adversely affected my biceps or triceps- they get plenty of work on the larger compound movements. Keep in mind I'm not "bodybuilding" here, just somewhat casual strength training.

You need to take a couple advil and ice your sore areas after EVERY time they are irritated. Always advil than ice. You will have very quick recovery with this method.

I agree that Deadlifts (DL's) are hands down the absolute best back workout. They are not optional. Anyone looking to build a solid core MUST do DL's.

Think of it this way. DLs are to back as bench is to chest. They are that fundamental for a strong body and back. You cannot and must not avoid them.

As a side benefit to DL's, you work bicept as a secondary muscle group.

Yep, deadlifts are in my routine. I like them a hell of a lot more than I like squats.

Lower back? That's common enough and nothing to worry about as long as it's just the muscles that are sore. A good leg workout can (and should, IMO) hit the lower back pretty good.

A roman chair is great for working your core and has helped me keep my lower back from being too much of a weak point in my leg workout.

That is not a real strength training movement. If your back is so weak that this excercise makes you significantly stronger, you have a very weak back.

LOL. Try it with a 45lbs plate and tell me that's not a strength training movement. I've been roofing for 23 years, one thing on me that isn't weak is my back.

Focus on the DL's and you will see huge improvements.

I assume the leg training you're taking about is squats? If squats are hitting your back that hard, you're either doing too much weight (and its dangerous to do that) or your form needs work.

Both are possibilities, but another factor is simple physiology. Being 6'3" and long limbed, getting my thighs horizontal has me folding up in ways that may differ a bit from someone shorter of limb. Keeping the weight above my feet does involve a fair bit of effort on the part of my lower back.