mikesail Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Josh posted a picture of the cam lobes on #1 and the exhaust is correct. post 47 OK, that photo set does show all the complete cam sequence. Intake and exhaust and timing plate look correct. I assume that the crank timing is OK, hard to get that much off without jamming valves..... FPR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Uh, there is another reason. Unless you have a distributor for the spark, you have to have a cam sensor to decide how to "distribute" the coil primary voltage. . Not really if you have I4 engine with twin coiled waste spark system.Carburated bikes like that don`t need cam sensor. Pics in manual refers to lobes for cylinder 1,"driver" side.4 is "passenger" side. As long as Josh has T mark on ignition pulse generator rotor aligned properly with index mark on the cover cams and the trigger wheel are installed properly.Just look at the last set of pictures he has posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 I have the T mark lined up with the mark on the timing cover. It sits about the 2 o'clock mark on in the threads of the timing cover. If it is something electrical, or the crank sensor, Will I know it's fixxed since I turned the crank last night and have now got it 180 off...or on??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANKSXXX Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Josh...a long shot here....I reread all the posts and I noticed 1 referred to a PC3. If I'm not mistaken, they install in line, between a male and female factory connector. Why don't you try disconnecting it and bypassing it, plugging the original connectors back together...(I never used one but I know they go bad) If that doesn't help, I think I'd do a compression test next...It's gonna be a bit lower than stock but not alot (mine was 175 PSI or so) and all cylinders should all be fairly even... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesail Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Uh, there is another reason. Unless you have a distributor for the spark, you have to have a cam sensor to decide how to "distribute" the coil primary voltage. . Not really if you have I4 engine with twin coiled waste spark system.Carburated bikes like that don`t need cam sensor. Pics in manual refers to lobes for cylinder 1,"driver" side.4 is "passenger" side. As long as Josh has T mark on ignition pulse generator rotor aligned properly with index mark on the cover cams and the trigger wheel are installed properly.Just look at the last set of pictures he has posted. I disagree, if you don't switch the coils then you will have spark every 1/2 crank rotation. This will cut into the coil energy storage at the very least. I understand that the carb version does not have this, but it is an improvement for the ignition to effectively operate at a lower rpm. Looking at the manual, it appears that there is a tick every 30 degrees for the ignition sensor. So it is clear that the ECU has to extrapolate between two marks to arrive at the actual timing. Without any other inputs, it seems that the carb bike must have had a different timing trigger wheel. .............. OK, just looked it up, the carb bike has missing teeth for orientation. Any chance an early trigger was put on? I think you said the pieces were from FI versions. Yea, it does look ok for engine timing. Josh...a long shot here....I reread all the posts and I noticed 1 referred to a PC3. If I'm not mistaken, they install in line, between a male and female factory connector. Why don't you try disconnecting it and bypassing it, plugging the original connectors back together...(I never used one but I know they go bad) If that doesn't help, I think I'd do a compression test next...It's gonna be a bit lower than stock but not alot (mine was 175 PSI or so) and all cylinders should all be fairly even... Totally agree here, good catch Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 One of the first things I did was pull the pc3 out of the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Uh, there is another reason. Unless you have a distributor for the spark, you have to have a cam sensor to decide how to "distribute" the coil primary voltage. . Not really if you have I4 engine with twin coiled waste spark system.Carburated bikes like that don`t need cam sensor. Pics in manual refers to lobes for cylinder 1,"driver" side.4 is "passenger" side. As long as Josh has T mark on ignition pulse generator rotor aligned properly with index mark on the cover cams and the trigger wheel are installed properly.Just look at the last set of pictures he has posted. I disagree, if you don't switch the coils then you will have spark every 1/2 crank rotation. This will cut into the coil energy storage at the very least. I understand that the carb version does not have this, but it is an improvement for the ignition to effectively operate at a lower rpm. Looking at the manual, it appears that there is a tick every 30 degrees for the ignition sensor. So it is clear that the ECU has to extrapolate between two marks to arrive at the actual timing. Without any other inputs, it seems that the carb bike must have had a different timing trigger wheel. .............. OK, just looked it up, the carb bike has missing teeth for orientation. Any chance an early trigger was put on? I think you said the pieces were from FI versions. Yea, it does look ok for engine timing. Josh...a long shot here....I reread all the posts and I noticed 1 referred to a PC3. If I'm not mistaken, they install in line, between a male and female factory connector. Why don't you try disconnecting it and bypassing it, plugging the original connectors back together...(I never used one but I know they go bad) If that doesn't help, I think I'd do a compression test next...It's gonna be a bit lower than stock but not alot (mine was 175 PSI or so) and all cylinders should all be fairly even... Totally agree here, good catch Hank pc is out of the loop 99 motor fi version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 O.K.,this thread officially gave me a headache.I`m out.It is probably something really stupid,easy to overlook. There are times when it is actually better to leave it ( the problem ) alone and come back couple days later with fresh brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 24, 2009 Author Share Posted July 24, 2009 Swapped the cam pickup, same thing... Except my MAP sensor code is back now. :icon_wall: How about the speed sensor in the top of the tranny? It wouldnt work with the digital dash right? Would it keep it from starting? I'm starting to think it will probably be a simple thing too...or it's time to swap my cams back to the way they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 O.K.,this thread officially gave me a headache.I`m out.It is probably something really stupid,easy to overlook. There are times when it is actually better to leave it ( the problem ) alone and come back couple days later with fresh brain. I find the same thing to be true. Josh means the crank sensor, he had already done the cam sensor. And the spedo sensor has nothing to do with the way the engine runs. I am leaning toward stuck injectors. Very rich, cold engine, fowling the plugs. Crap in the fuel rail,,,kids.... Or, the turbo enricher fpr, he is going to take out of the loop. More, later. Don't let it get to ya Tom, we need ya to keep us grounded. Swapped the crankpickup, same thing... Except my MAP sensor code is back now. Need to fix that wiring thing right :icon_wall: How about the speed sensor in the top of the tranny? It wouldnt work with the digital dash right? Would it keep it from starting? nope I'm starting to think it will probably be a simple thing too...or it's time to swap my cams back to the way they were. they are the way they were Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Or, the turbo enricher fpr, he is going to take out of the loop. There's no need. It won't do anything unless there's positive pressure on the vacuum line to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Or, the turbo enricher fpr, he is going to take out of the loop. There's no need. It won't do anything unless there's positive pressure on the vacuum line to it. thanks, still think the injectors.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Na, you know it is wasted spark, don't ya. I am moving in the excess fuel direction, because of the fouled plugs, that are wet with fuel. New plugs, and stock pump and fuel line for a test start. Gotta go and assemble Brent's motor and clay the valve clearance. Later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Or, the turbo enricher fpr, he is going to take out of the loop. There's no need. It won't do anything unless there's positive pressure on the vacuum line to it. thanks, still think the injectors.. Ya know... the FMU restricts the fuel return line to increase fuel pressure. If it's stuck "on", it could cause that. Another possibility is a kink in the return fuel line, which would do the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 all right now?????? gonna call. whole day down the drain..... well, we are waiting!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 I will look at it tomorrow. Talked to Alan about possible fuel issues. I'm still not convinced I dont have a cam issue still. I needed to get away from it for a day before I convinced myself to shove it into a corner of the garage and assemble the quad instead. It is just a pile of parts that "should" bolt together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 I will look at it tomorrow. Talked to Alan about possible fuel issues. I'm still not convinced I dont have a cam issue still. I needed to get away from it for a day before I convinced myself to shove it into a corner of the garage and assemble the quad instead. It is just a pile of parts that "should" bolt together. there is nothing more satisfying than overcoming adversity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 The fucking cams are moot, so get over it. been there and done that. to death. It's to fat...way to fat. put it back stock in the fuel system and put some new plugs in it. And fix that map wire. Now!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 there is nothing more satisfying than overcoming adversity. Except maybe a good dump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 there is nothing more satisfying than overcoming adversity. Except maybe a good dump. same thing at my age Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 there is nothing more satisfying than overcoming adversity. Except maybe a good dump. same thing at my age Well this thread is just shit now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 there is nothing more satisfying than overcoming adversity. Except maybe a good dump. same thing at my age Well this thread is just shit now... but oh so satisfying!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 Probably pull the cams in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Probably pull the cams in the morning. why? you know what the definition of insanity is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 Probably pull the cams in the morning. why? you know what the definition of insanity is? Yes, that is why I took a day away from it. Going after the fuel system tomorrow. Still getting a low fuel level warning and FI map sensor warning despite having about two gallons in the tanks and fixing MAP wire. Should I unplug battery to clear code? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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