Hot Hot Hot, my xx is melting :S

[hob]

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum. I've been searching for related topics but couldnt find, so decided to open one myself.

Basicly my xx is overheating. when i say over heating, I mean 120 C, (not F ).

The birds seems to have chronic re-charge problem. Discussed in many ways as i can see. Well mine got the disease as well. I ride for half hour no probs. But when i wait in traffic for 10mins and heat gets upto 120. So pull over. wait for cool down. And it wont start...

Although I think it is mainly heat related, I checked the charge system, fuses all wd40ied, checked RR, even installed a cooling aluminum plate on the RR, bought new battery and did all sorts of things, both usefully and crap.. . But after 10mins in traffic, well the bike just starts to burn. and no juice...

I guess the bike overheats, the RR shuts (cos it heats as well). The charging stops. The fan gets weaker by the min. forces me to pullover and killing my battery. And by the time i start again there is just not enough juice...

and yes, i did check if the fan is working.

and yes the coolant fluid is full. :)

Why does it overheat? Ok, its pretty hot down here (35C or so) but thats no good enough reason.

Is the heating charge system related?

Is the no-starting heat related??

The water pipes seem to go around without bends . The system doesnt seem to be lacking any water, so there is no holes. The radiator has no holes. Argh ???

[runner]

Provide more bike info...year, miles, last time coolant was changed, etc.

We will give you solutions if you give us details...

[rockmeupto125]

Okay...for comparison, 120C is 248F, and that's getting pretty hot. It would be helpful to know what the ambient temperature is...I imagine its up there as your login shows you're from an a pretty warm area.

First, I suggest you search on the terms overheating, coolant, and temperature. Also, you might have to simply scroll through the garage listing and read each title for some information on this subject...there's a lot out there.

Here's a brief recap. When your XX is at an idle or low rpm, the water pump has very minimal function. That means very little coolant circulates, so not much engine heat transfers from the coolant to the atmosphere. In an attempt to lower the temperature, the radiator fan comes on. This draws a lot of current from your battery...which is not being replenished because your alternator is not putting out much power at low rpm. So when you shut your bike off after spending 10 minutes in traffic with the fan on, the battery is low enough so that it won't spin the engine over.

Notice that if you get out of traffic, and out on the open road, your temp gauge falls very quickly. That indicates two things. One, your cooling system is functional at road speeds. Two, your engine really wasn't overheated. Only your coolant was. If your engine was overheated, you would experience poor running (in the form of low power, sputtering and backfiring), poor throttle response, and preignition/pinging (a rattle from the engine). What happens is, we look at the gauge, see that the temperature is high, and assume that the gauge reflects the overall condition of the engine. Unfortunately the gauge only reflects what it sees at one point in the cooling system....the sensor. So the gauge can only report the overall condition of the engine when the engine coolant is being passed by the sensor in large enough quantity that the sample is an average, rather than a spot measurement. This isn't happening when the coolant isn't circulating well...such as when your engine is idling. The gauge is a great tool, but only if you understand what it does.

You should:

Check your battery with both a voltage and load test. Even though its new, it may not be as good as it should.

Check your charging system (both the stator and the regulator) by the methods outlined in the service manual----once you've established that you have a good battery with a full charge.

Check that the radiator is clean and the fins are straight.

Keep in mind that the XX is a road bike, not a town bike. Its very aerodynamic design holds heat and can lead to overheating. Here are two things you can try. One is a product such as Water Wetter that increases the ability of the coolant to transfer heat. The second is simple. Keep your engine running at 2-3000 rpm when stopped in traffic, and see if there is any change in your symptoms. Running the engine faster will spin the water pump faster and circulate coolant while maintaining a greater charge rate from your stator if its working properly. It won't force more air through your radiator, so its not a long term solution, but its a good diagnostic device.

[hob]

to answer runner, its a 2003 model, on 20000km roughly 9k. coolant was drained and changed just last week. And I filled it up with coolant only, a few bottles. run the engine, and filled it up with fresh water. I'm located in Istanbul, Turkey. There is alot of traffic, and the weather is has been 30 ~ 32 degrees celcius, in shadow.

And rockmeupto125, thanks for the looong answer. Really appreciated it.

I did check the battery with load test and voltage test. Just 2 days ago I bought new battery to be on the safe side. 12v 9Amp.

Now I'm near the bike, and testing as I type.

Got the multimeter out and the results...

13.57 ~ 13.63 V , the engine is still cold, revs around 2300.

Ok the engine is around 70C, the rev dropped to idle, 1100.

I'm reving at 5500 now.

results 14.24~ 14.78v @ 5500 RPM

So did i pass the test ??? lol

Since I'm near the bike, I'm checking on the fins and the overall condition of the pipes, again.

no punctures, the fins are not bend...

I'll keep in mind about 2500 rmp on traffic, but it sure is not a permanent solution.

the water wetter on the other hand seems great solution. lets see if they deliver to turkey

Thanks, I'll keep posting for changes.

Okay...for comparison, 120C is 248F, and that's getting pretty hot. It would be helpful to know what the ambient temperature is...I imagine its up there as your login shows you're from an a pretty warm area.

First, I suggest you search on the terms overheating, coolant, and temperature. Also, you might have to simply scroll through the garage listing and read each title for some information on this subject...there's a lot out there.

Here's a brief recap. When your XX is at an idle or low rpm, the water pump has very minimal function. That means very little coolant circulates, so not much engine heat transfers from the coolant to the atmosphere. In an attempt to lower the temperature, the radiator fan comes on. This draws a lot of current from your battery...which is not being replenished because your alternator is not putting out much power at low rpm. So when you shut your bike off after spending 10 minutes in traffic with the fan on, the battery is low enough so that it won't spin the engine over.

Notice that if you get out of traffic, and out on the open road, your temp gauge falls very quickly. That indicates two things. One, your cooling system is functional at road speeds. Two, your engine really wasn't overheated. Only your coolant was. If your engine was overheated, you would experience poor running (in the form of low power, sputtering and backfiring), poor throttle response, and preignition/pinging (a rattle from the engine). What happens is, we look at the gauge, see that the temperature is high, and assume that the gauge reflects the overall condition of the engine. Unfortunately the gauge only reflects what it sees at one point in the cooling system....the sensor. So the gauge can only report the overall condition of the engine when the engine coolant is being passed by the sensor in large enough quantity that the sample is an average, rather than a spot measurement. This isn't happening when the coolant isn't circulating well...such as when your engine is idling. The gauge is a great tool, but only if you understand what it does.

You should:

Check your battery with both a voltage and load test. Even though its new, it may not be as good as it should.

Check your charging system (both the stator and the regulator) by the methods outlined in the service manual----once you've established that you have a good battery with a full charge.

Check that the radiator is clean and the fins are straight.

Keep in mind that the XX is a road bike, not a town bike. Its very aerodynamic design holds heat and can lead to overheating. Here are two things you can try. One is a product such as Water Wetter that increases the ability of the coolant to transfer heat. The second is simple. Keep your engine running at 2-3000 rpm when stopped in traffic, and see if there is any change in your symptoms. Running the engine faster will spin the water pump faster and circulate coolant while maintaining a greater charge rate from your stator if its working properly. It won't force more air through your radiator, so its not a long term solution, but its a good diagnostic device.

[xxexcess]

So are you running pure coolant, or just water or a mixture of both??? I am not clear from your description.

How did you drain and refill the coolant??? as per workshop manual???

Was the bike running hot before you changed the coolant??

Iain

[bartonmd]

If you've got too high % of coolant, it will over heat, as the water is the part that carries the heat away, and the coolant't job is to stop the mixture from freezing in in the winter, to slow down corrosion, and to raise the boiling point of the water. Drain the coolant out and get it to 50/50 DISTILLED water and coolant, or refill with pre-mixed coolant.

Mike

[xxexcess]

If you can get to a Honda bike or car dealer the correct coolant part no is 08C50C321S01 , the cars use the same stuff as bikes and it's pre mixed.

Iain

[hob]

I put inside one of those pre mixed coolants. And later I put a pint of fresh water to top up.

Yes it had heating problems before i drained. And yes I did it according to "stupid" workshop manual,

which made me remove all fairings and stays from the bike

Yesterday, I got the idea of removing this valve (i dont know the name of the part...) between the radiator and the coolant reserve under the seat.

It basically has some mercury or some sort of heat triggered stuff inside it. It normally blocks the reserve tank, until bike (or the water in the system) gets warm enough.

I found out on my '96 fireblade that after some time, the part gets clogged and malfunctions. so removing helps a constant water flow...

I'll test today and write about results... it looks like a 35+ weather today...

[xxexcess]

Any chance of a pic of this valve??? never knew it had something like that, i have just had a quick look through the workshop manual and it doesn't mention anything about this.

For overheating it does mention, bad radiator cap, bad thermostat, faulty water pump etc etc.

[bartonmd]

The only valve I know of between the radiator and reserve is the springed gasket in the radiator cap. Is this what you're talking about?

When you had the radiator cap off to fill the system, what did the fins look like, as you looked down into the radiator? Was there a lot of corrosion built up on them? If so, that will cut down the effeciency of your system and will cause the bike to overheat more easily. See this website: http://www.fjrtech.com/getdbitem.cfm?item=43 to see Warchild's "blowjob" method of cleaning the junk out of the radiator. He had it for the Blackbird, but it'd down, but he also shows it for the FJR, and the principals are the same.

Honestly, If it's really hot outside and you've done the "blowjob" on your radiator, and you're still boiling coolant, you may just want to go with the Evans NGP+ waterless coolant. With 0PSI of pressure, it doesn't boil until 375F (190 deg. C), and it doesn't have any water in it, so corrosion is nonexistant. If you can't get it over there, you can contact these guys, and it appears they'll ship it to you. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EVANS-COOLI...sspagenameZWDVW

Information here:

www.evanscooling.com

If you ride around 0 deg C over there (I don't know what your climate is like over there), get the NGP+, but if it never gets cold, use the NGP-R

Mike

[CxBXR]

+1 check for bent fins restricting air flow.....I have a mild case of this & it does affect cooling FYI

[hob]

Any chance of a pic of this valve??? never knew it had something like that, i have just had a quick look through the workshop manual and it doesn't mention anything about this.

For overheating it does mention, bad radiator cap, bad thermostat, faulty water pump etc etc.

The only valve I know of between the radiator and reserve is the springed gasket in the radiator cap. Is this what you're talking about?

...

Sorry, my bad. Its not between reserve tank and radiator, its between two ends of the radiator, and its called thermostat as I learn from the manual

I orderes a waterless coolant, the NGP+ one, for $30. so thanks for the info. I read its better than water wetter, but to be on the safe side, i ordered a water wetter as well

But there is something bugging me. I'm not a racer, nor a performance rider. True, BB is meant for the open road but I'm sure Honda put in the design a little place for traffic in warm weather, so there sure must be something wrong with the bike for heating up this much...

+1 check for bent fins restricting air flow.....I have a mild case of this & it does affect cooling FYI

Anyways, the thermostat mod did help a little. The bike is much cooler, near 115C, instead of the 120C... still over the limit and the weather is not that hot yet...

So today I'm trying the finn "blowjob", but with eye inspection, it looks clean to me, so i start worrying about the radiator pump... I keep reading the manual and getting no where. If the blowjob dont work, I dont know what i'll do... maybe wait for the coolants to arrive

thats the thermostat by the way... If you need help removing it just pm. I removed under an hour...

[xxexcess]

Injection blackbirds do run hotter than the carb versions, I was using my carb bird last year in cyprus in summer months and that got really hot in traffic, hottest i have ever seen it, once out on the opne road the temps dropped pretty fast. I appreciate if you do most of your riding in the city then the bike is going to be hot most of the time.

Iain

[Aurora]

Then bike will run hot below 30 mph.

It is not a bike for stop and go traffic.

[Ronnie]

My 2002 ran 240F + many many times in summer traffic. I got where I didn't pay any attention to it.

[hob]

It is not a bike for stop and go traffic.

Sorry, but i dont buy that. if it was an air cooled engine, than i would agree, like my old virago, where the back cylinder head just stops working proper after some time by the heath...

I understand the aero dynamic design keeps heat inside, but think about it, you design such a beautiful bike than you would consider poor buggers like myself stuck in traffic on motorway. So you put an oil and a water radiator.

My 2002 ran 240F + many many times in summer traffic. I got where I didn't pay any attention to it.

240 F is like 115C so it not unusual then...

I did the fin blow thing... not quite sure it worked, got some dirt out though...

while on the process i bleeded the whole system, mixed 60/40 coolant with fresh water.

Today, I got a 100km ride and 100 come back, mostly in sunday traffic...

it will be a good test. and if that wont work, on Monday i'll check the pump...

Getting really fast in taking out and putting in fairings

[EVLXX]

Did you run a Radiator Flush.... to clean out any scaling first ?

...

Then, yes I run the Evans NPG as well.... it's good stuff.

...

and if that still doesn't fix your problem... I would get the Exhaust Header Ceramic Coated. Some people here have done that, and you'ld have to ask them for their thoughts on it.

Good Luck.

[Ronnie]

It is not a bike for stop and go traffic.

Sorry, but i dont buy that. if it was an air cooled engine, than i would agree, like my old virago, where the back cylinder head just stops working proper after some time by the heath...

I understand the aero dynamic design keeps heat inside, but think about it, you design such a beautiful bike than you would consider poor buggers like myself stuck in traffic on motorway. So you put an oil and a water radiator.

My 2002 ran 240F + many many times in summer traffic. I got where I didn't pay any attention to it.

240 F is like 115C so it not unusual then...

I did the fin blow thing... not quite sure it worked, got some dirt out though...

while on the process i bleeded the whole system, mixed 60/40 coolant with fresh water.

Today, I got a 100km ride and 100 come back, mostly in sunday traffic...

it will be a good test. and if that wont work, on Monday i'll check the pump...

Getting really fast in taking out and putting in fairings

240f+

[brianmacza]

My '97 had overheating issues a year ago - replaced the water pump and all was well. I found that the impeller on the water pump was so corroded that a couple of blades had vanished and the ones that were still there pumped poorly anyway.

B

[blackhawkxx]

My '97 had overheating issues a year ago - replaced the water pump and all was well. I found that the impeller on the water pump was so corroded that a couple of blades had vanished and the ones that were still there pumped poorly anyway.

How often did you change the coolant (if you had the bike for some years) and if so, what brand did you use?

[bartonmd]

You can leave the thermostat out for the NGP+... It needs a little more flow than glycol/water coolant anyway. The temperatures will be a little hotter with the NGP+, but it doesn't matter because the 115C "limit" on an engine is simply because that's where the 50/50 coolant boils, so it's no big deal. I have kept mine in because I ride when it's so cold outside. It doesn't sound like your climate is as cold as mine.

DO NOT use water wetter with the NGP+... The Watter Wetter is specifically to cut down the surface tension of water, so you don't get spot-boiling of the coolant in the water jacket of the engine. The NGP+ does not have any water in it, so the water wetter will do absolutely nothing, and since water wetter is supposed to mix with water, and the NGP stuff is not supposed to mix with water, I don't know how it will work together.

By the way, be sure to flush the system very well with straight propolene glycol coolant before you add the NGP... Just draining the coolant and filling it back up again won't get anywhere NEAR all of the water out of the system. I had to flush 3 times with propolene glycol coolant to get all the water out.

While you've drained the system, check the water pump to make sure it hasn't lost fins or whatever... The water pump is under the cover where you drain the coolant from, on the clutch lever side of the bike.

Also, do the "blow job" on the radiator while you have it apart.

Mike

[Bunbun]

I remember the first time I freaked out when the bird got past 240 F. Almost got to 250 and I was sweating it saying I'd pull over and let it cool down if it hit 250. Never did fortunately. I was passing through Dallas in the summer, right around rush hour. Lots of stop and go traffic and a noob to bird ownership = freaking out. Now in town and under 40mph I typically see 220 +/- On the highway in summer I see 186-190 and 175 in the winter. Basically I ignore it till it gets close to 250.

Bun

[hob]

Great news!!!

I resolved my heat problem... I still dont know what the problem was... but at the mo all i care is that its resolved...

I was worrying about the worst, a blown gasket or something but it just needed a good clean up

Here is the list of thinks i did..

1- removed the water pump cover, It was clean inside, no corrosion what so ever... I checked the blades, sharp, not turning, it started to turn when i start engine for a few secs though...

2- removed radiator, took it to a radiator service, they cleaned it, put chems etc, took it back.

3- installed all parts pack, put garden hose to radiator cap, and opened bleeding bolt from pump.

4- i run the engine and constantly run water inside it for half hour, cleaning out the radiator acid as the radiator repair shop instructed. They said the acid will clean any corrosion that might have happened in the block, in pipes, etc.

5- finally when I'm satisfied that the water is running normal and the water is clean, without particles and rust and such, I stopped the engine. close bleeding bolt. Put one litter of coolant and top up with fresh water. tighten radiator cap.

and thats all. yesterday 2 hours in stop&go rush hour traffic in flaming 35+ C weather. And heat was around 105C, 110 max. No need to rev in stops, no need to pull over for cooling.

With NGP+ arriving soon, I'll bleed the system and run only NGP+ inside. (as bartonmd suggested). Water wetter? well I'll just keep it for future..

Thanks all for contribs.

Anyone need directions in the above steps pm me

[xxexcess]

I am glad you got to the bottom of the problem and all is well.

[bartonmd]

Great news!!!

I resolved my heat problem... I still dont know what the problem was... but at the mo all i care is that its resolved...

I was worrying about the worst, a blown gasket or something but it just needed a good clean up

Here is the list of thinks i did..

1- removed the water pump cover, It was clean inside, no corrosion what so ever... I checked the blades, sharp, not turning, it started to turn when i start engine for a few secs though...

2- removed radiator, took it to a radiator service, they cleaned it, put chems etc, took it back.

3- installed all parts pack, put garden hose to radiator cap, and opened bleeding bolt from pump.

4- i run the engine and constantly run water inside it for half hour, cleaning out the radiator acid as the radiator repair shop instructed. They said the acid will clean any corrosion that might have happened in the block, in pipes, etc.

5- finally when I'm satisfied that the water is running normal and the water is clean, without particles and rust and such, I stopped the engine. close bleeding bolt. Put one litter of coolant and top up with fresh water. tighten radiator cap.

and thats all. yesterday 2 hours in stop&go rush hour traffic in flaming 35+ C weather. And heat was around 105C, 110 max. No need to rev in stops, no need to pull over for cooling.

With NGP+ arriving soon, I'll bleed the system and run only NGP+ inside. (as bartonmd suggested). Water wetter? well I'll just keep it for future..

Thanks all for contribs.

Anyone need directions in the above steps pm me

Excellent!

One thing to watch, though... do not keep tap water in the coolant system for very long. ALWAYS use distilled water with the coolant, because it has none of the minerals in it that will plug up your coolant passages in the radiator, and coat everything in lime, calcium, and iron from the water from the tap/hose.

Mike