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Anybody ever dealt with black mold in walls and floors?


SwampNut

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:mad:

History: Burst pipe caused a flood a couple months ago (leading me to miss the get-together in San Diego). It did some wall damage, and today I started to remodel the bath that had some minor (or so I thought) damage.

Discoveries: There's still moisture at the foot of the walls. There's black mold along some studs and all walls up to about 18" from the floor. There is moisture under some of the tile, some are loose, and there are millions of very tiny little bugs under the tile. Not in the walls, just under the tile. And when you remove a tile, they scamper to hide under the tiles left on the floor.

This is gonna get real fun, I can tell. So far the bathroom looks like a total loss, and the adjoining wall in the living room will probably have to be removed. Which means at least the edge of the new living room tile. :roll:

I wanted to remodel the bath, it really needed it. I didn't plan on reconstructing walls though. Fuck. And not sure how to rid the house of all the mold.

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I had a leak in my shower that did that to my floor and tile had to take the floor down to the sub floor and the tiles up to where I found dry part of the wall and replace the floor and bad tiles turned out to be a lot of work, once you get the bad stuff removed you have to let every thing dry, im no carpenter but it turn out nice. If it was a burst pipe your homeowners insurance should pay for the repairs , good luck.

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Had a leaky shower about a month ago, lots of black mold, but as soon as I fixxed the leak, no more black mold. Never had any little bugs and you can still tell where the mold was but the wood is still strong so I'm going to leave it.... for now anyways. Good luck on the remodeling.

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This is as common problem in the Pacific North Wet. It depends on how deep the mold goes. If it's just on the surface you may get away with just killing it with a household bleach solution. I finally had to completely replace my bathroom floor several years ago - and I'm probably looking at ripping down the drywall in the back bedrooms (at least on the outside walls) and completely replacing that in a few years. The floor will probably be your most troublesome area - although, again you may luck out and be able to kill the stuff and reglue the tiles. In any case let it dry thoroughly before doing anything else.

Terry

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This is as common problem in the Pacific North Wet. It depends on how deep the mold goes. If it's just on the surface you may get away with just killing it with a household bleach solution. I finally had to completely replace my bathroom floor several years ago - and I'm probably looking at ripping down the drywall in the back bedrooms (at least on the outside walls) and completely replacing that in a few years. The floor will probably be your most troublesome area - although, again you may luck out and be able to kill the stuff and reglue the tiles. In any case let it dry thoroughly before doing anything else.

Terry

Exactly, bleach should work. If you have the time and money just gut the bathroom and start over. You can make it better than it was before the flood and fix everything in the process. Insurance should go a long way toward the remodeling.

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We haven't done an insurance claim on the advice of a couple agents. They say once a water damage claim is on your record, it's like a salvage title on the house. Might never sell it again, or be able to re-insure it. I guess the mold has killed people in the past, so it's a source of paranoia.

The floor is no problem. Had to be re-done anyway since it was done half-assed; they didn't bother to remove the sink cabinet and do the whole floor. I want to be rid of the cabinet and am building an ash stand to hold a glass bowl sink on a granite top, so I need full tile. And since this is AZ, the floor is concrete under the tile. Easy.

The big problem is this stuff has traveled in the walls behind stuff. There is still moisture in some walls as a rip down the plasterboard. I've been spraying it with 20% bleach as I expose it to keep spore travel down. Just don't know how much I need to rip out as far as walls. And I didn't plan to remove the bathtub and its tile walls which are in good shape, but there may be some back there.

A simple mold. Who woulda thought it could be such a pain? Why couldn't it be penicillin and make us all superhuman?

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We haven't done an insurance claim on the advice of a couple agents. They say once a water damage claim is on your record, it's like a salvage title on the house. Might never sell it again, or be able to re-insure it.

I don't know how things work out there but an insurance claim wouldn't show up anywhere during the sale of a property. It would be your responsibility as the seller to disclose any existing problems but not any prior problems that had been fixed. Other than that, the majority of buyers now are paying to have a third party home inspection done by a licensed company to check for problems that you might not be aware of. Mold has become such an issue lately here in our public school buildings that I'd bet it won't be long before the home inspectors start scientifically testing for that too. Believe it of not, it's very common on the inside of ridged HVAC duct work (the kind that's insulated on the inside) and above suspended ceilings that might have gotten wet in the past. It thrives on a damp/dark enviroment, if you can eliminate that you can get rid of it. I don't blame you for not wanting to tear out the tub/tile but you can take out the rest of the sheetrock pretty easily and then just replace it.

Good luck Carlos.

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There's a bureau that has info about past insurance claims for property and people. Kinda like a credit bureau. My two agent/broker friends said it is becoming common to pay the $50 to search it for significant claims, much like Carfax for car damage.

I'm going to talk to him about it again now that we see the damage is much more significant. But I think the advice will still be not to claim it. I think he said for less than $5-10k just bite it.

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I hope he's a good friend (and not just your insurance agent) who's giving you honest advice. Insurance claims for water damage are very common and happen all of the time. I can't imagine that a prospective buyer would be put off by a claim for a broken pipe if the damage had been repaired.

That's what insurance is for, I can see not claiming $500 or maybe $1000, but $5000 to $10,000? That's crazy. Especially on a home built on a slab, damage is gonna be limited since the majority of damage happens to floors. Repairs would consist of only the floor covering itself and not the subfloor, much easier to repair than a conventional floor system.

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I hope he's a good friend (and not just your insurance agent)

He's been a friend for 14 years, owns an agency, and is actually not the agent for the house. So no biases. Also asked another broker friend who is not involved with my insurance at all. Both said it would damage the resale value of the house.

Keep in mind that "broken pipe" wasn't as small as it sounds. The entire area had an inch of water in it, and the walls had a foot of water in them. In addition one of the breaks was in the ceiling, so it was raining down from there.

The problem I'm seeing right now is that there are footers and some structural members that are still wet, and appear to have mold. So...I could hose those off with a bunch of anti-fungal chemicals, but would that be enough? How much destruction is enough? And what if I miss some and it comes back (that's my big fear).

Well, at least right now it's a good time to kill mold, since our humidity is around 10-15% and inside the house with the A/C it's even drier.

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Mold, that stuff can get nasty and is not something I would play around with.

As soon as possible I would tear out all the effected dry wall and flooring, and yes this also includes around the shower/tub. Then spray all the effected wood with either bleach or some other mold killing chemical. I would then let the effected areas dry completely before checking for rot. If all checks out, well your all set for a remodel.

However if you have rot or the mold will just not go away. Your gonna have to replace all the effected wood before proceeding.

I would not claim this damage, unless of course the cost is just to much for you to bear.

Reason, you may loose resale value and also your insurance company could up your rates.

Good luck.

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We haven't done an insurance claim on the advice of a couple agents. They say once a water damage claim is on your record, it's like a salvage title on the house. Might never sell it again, or be able to re-insure it. I guess the mold has killed people in the past, so it's a source of paranoia.

Yep that is the truth. Better off paying for that out of your pocket.

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I work for an insurance company, and I can guarantee that if there's an agency for protecting against mold, they're a member. Most insurance companies are all about reducing risk.

If you're going to have to tear out the drywall at the bottom anyways, you might as well tear out the whole wall, up to the tile around the tub. Drywall is really pretty easy to do yourself, and while you're at it you can run electrical and water as necessary. Do as suggested, spray with Bleach make sure it completly air dries. I'd think in AZ that wouldn't take too long.

Whether to remove the tub and check behind that is probably your call, how much mold is their around the area right next to it? Is it really likely that the tub needs to be pulled?

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The problem I'm seeing right now is that there are footers and some structural members that are still wet, and appear to have mold. So...I could hose those off with a bunch of anti-fungal chemicals, but would that be enough? How much destruction is enough? And what if I miss some and it comes back (that's my big fear).

Well, at least right now it's a good time to kill mold, since our humidity is around 10-15% and inside the house with the A/C it's even drier.

How long ago did this happen? It's still not dry? It must have been leaking for a long time if your mold problem is that bad. You know you have to get everything dried out, so my suggestion would be too stick a nife in the wood.... if the nife goes in more than a 1/4 of an inch...replace it.

I would also have to agree with your friend about the insureance, I have 2 good friends that made water claims over the last year and a half... both were droped by their insurance company shortly there after and then it took them several months of fighting to get any insureance agian. Both of theses people are now paying more for thier insurance because they are a "risk". To me it's a bunch of bull, I thought that was what insurance is for, but the insureance companies will just tell you they have to watch out for insureance fruad. No matter what you do you can't win against them..... unless you are a millionare and got a really good lawyer... in which cause you wouldn't have needed the insurance anyhow.

Hey look on the bright side.... demollition is fun! :twisted:

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1 Find extent of problem.

2 Remove mould. Talk to Home Depot for best harmless to you product.

3 Remove all rot and replace.

4 Make sure you wear a suitable mask while you are in close to the mould. Can cause some respritory problems, etc.

5 Air dry everything.

6 Spray an insectacide before rebuilding, its amazing what those suckers live through. Good luck.

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Best case, remove 12'' of drywall at the bottom of every wall that got wet. remove insulation, spray with the bleach solution, and dry it out for a couple of weeks.

Worst case, When there is an overhead flood is is much better to remove all drywall and insulation and start over. All the dampness is not just a mold problem. Termites love the dampness and a friend of ours had to treat for the bugs after his flood. I hope you have a raised floor (not slab on grade). You may want to treat the under floor as well.

I'm in the Drywall business, and i have seen this to many times.

Good luck, Dale

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If you're going to have to tear out the drywall at the bottom anyways, you might as well tear out the whole wall, up to the tile around the tub. Drywall is really pretty easy to do yourself,

Agreed - if you're going to tear out that much, you might just as well rip it all out and start from scratch. There is a special type of water resistant gypsum for use around tubs, etc. (forgot the name - senior moment, I guess)..

Drywall is really easy to work with. I did my whole garage and my bath by myself - they have some really great gadgets for taping now and a raft of stuff for texturing the surface. It's kind of fun - and it looks so nice when it's done.

Terry

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I hope you have a raised floor (not slab on grade).

:shock: It is slab on grade. Why?

Fuck, could those bugs under the tile be termites? They're tiny, but I suppose they could be babies.

Terry, do you have some advice on matching texture? It's a knock-down that seems to have more than the usual size of large blobs. Looks good, but seems like it will be hard to match. I've never done tape and texture. What did you use for a sprayer? I have a compressor, but not a gun that could spray this stuff.

There is a special type of water resistant gypsum for use around tubs, etc.

Yes, we have that (one of the few things done right in this house :roll: ). The quandary is that the tile and everything around the tub is perfect and would even match the new decorating I've planned. I guess I'm going to start by opening up the adjoining side of the wall and see what I find back there.

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I don't know exactly what your texture looks like - sounds kind of like the stuff on my ceilings - which is blown on - and, by the way, is a major pain to clean or paint over, but the walls could be matched by using a roller cover made of rug material. They even sell them in the paint stores because that particular texture is so common in the area. If the style of texture in your area is common, the local paint store may have roller covers - or can tell you the method used. The beauty of starting from scratch is you can have any old texture you desire!

Taping is not difficult - they sell spatula like tools for spreading it and feathering the edges so the seam is not obvious. Again, the guys at the paint store can be very helpful - or there are tons of books out there describing the process. That's my usual way to approach something I've never done before - go buy a book - or several. :-)

I did not use a sprayer for any of it - for indoor work, I use rollers and brushes - it's neater (for me, anyway)

Terry

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We haven't done an insurance claim on the advice of a couple agents.

Good idea. In Texas, if you make a mold claim now, your house

is un re-sellable. (there has been so much fraud in mold claims..)

:cool: TJ :cool:

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Claifornia supposedly had a new law go into effect in Jan 2003 that makes it difficult to sell a house once mold has been discovered. Things like this might migrate to your state, watch out. I say blow this thread away and take some of the good advice given here. The only question is, why just a 20% bleach solution?

Good luck

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20% bleach was recommended by several experts. Actually that's on the high end, they said 10-20%. Luckily my room mate's girlfriend is a biologist, so I set her on the task of finding out details on the mold. We ended up exposing all of the areas that had gotten wet, and soaked down the area and framing with 91% alcohol on her recommendation. This not only kills the mold, it also accelerates removal of any remaining moisture. We've got fans on it now. I plan to leave one side exposed for a couple weeks, while I reinstall the bathroom side.

Now...to find a granite remnant and hope UPS shows up with my sink today...

This was supposed to be a fun little project, not building a new house. :roll:

Thanks for everyone's advice!

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