Hobicus Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 So on the way home from RedNeXXt yesterday, I spent the better part of the ride worried about the voltage (or lack thereof) displayed on my Passport. Didn't help that I was running my heated grips and vest most of the way home. It would run at the normal voltage... hovering between 14.5 and 13.9, as the heat troller switches on/off the heated grips, and down about .2 when the vest is on, to in the low 13 and 12's. The voltage never got below 12.1 or so, and then it would start to crawl back up to the 14.5/13.9. I wasn't sure if it was something with the wiring of the radar detector, or something like the Reg/Rect being out. I was going to hook up my actual volt meter tonight and diagnose what was going on. So... Today, I rode to work, and with no grips on, no vest, it started at 12.6, and dropped almost all the way to work, when it suddenly jumped back to 14.5 shortly before I got to work. When I went to lunch, it was stuck at 12.4, and dropped to 12.3. After lunch, the bike turned over a bit slowly, and started.. but the voltage started to drop pretty quickly. I decided to take it straight home, as obviously there's something not right. Even the HID won't light all the way, it's flickering. I got it home, but by the time I got there, there wasn't enough juice to light the dashboard lights. She's on a charger right now, I already ordered the Reg Rectifier. Assuming it gets enough of a charge to start, I'll pull the rear cowl tonight and check the stator, too. Hopefully, the new RR will be here tomorrow. I got to my local dealer about 5 minutes before they place their daily order. They usually get stuff in the next day, unless it's got to ship from a farther ways away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Sounds like exactly what mine was doing right before the stator went tits up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp11XX Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Sounds like exactly what mine was doing right before the stator went tits up. +1 R/R was fine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Was having the same problem, an when I pulled it to put the r1 reg on the plug between the rr and stator was melted. Not to bad to work on and see if I could figure out why, and determined the female plug was not tight and was getting corrosion. I cleaned good and doped with dielectric grease and went back to 14. All good for a while and then back down. Going looking for the proper type female plugs is fruitless. It is a different type that has two flats on each side instead of the typical flat and spring rolls. I think the heat is made up due to lack of tight connection. I have gotten some typical female connections to do the repair on the what is left but thinking on soldering them to get a really good connection and heat shrinking for a good seal. But I also noticed that the voltage from the connection to the radar shows two different voltages as like Porter showed there are two positive and two negatives. The readout is the lower voltage. I am familiar that there is a battery voltage and a charging voltage. I am sure it is not reading that, but it is reading a voltage before and after radar and the drop is the difference. But, at the plug not pluged in it has to be the difference in the remote indicator and not sure other than the power light and alarm light and mute button what could make it that different. I saw atleast a volt difference between the two positive connections. I really think this is what makes the charging circut go bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobicus Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 Sounds like exactly what mine was doing right before the stator went tits up. +1 R/R was fine... Hmmmmmm Well, my thoughts were that if I have a spare RR sitting on the shelf after this is over with, that's probably OK. Since that's been the culprit more times than not, I had a 50/50 shot at guessing it right. Isn't there an aftermarket stator manufacturer out there that has a higher output stator for less than the factory version? I had to get to a 1:00 meeting, so I wasn't able to pull the rear cowl and diagnose the stator as dead before I had to head back to work. IF it's a dead stator, I should know tonight. Always something. Dammit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannymassage Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 How many miles does one typically get before these charging issues start cropping up? And what year or years are more susceptible to this problem? I have 25,000 miles on my 99XX. On the third battery. Charging is real strong. Battery maintains 12.7 with the key off. Start it up and it sticks around 14.3 volts or so. The first 2 batteries were ruined by sitting unused for months at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haWHYnXX Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 My problem is almost the opposite. Datel voltmeter shows 14.5-14.6 normal and runs up to 14.9 sometimes 15.0 when high beam is on (HID high and low). Will drop down to 14.7 when heated grips are on and high beams lit. R/R replaced last year in October after my run to Hwy 36 with Chris, Steve, and Phil. Still doing the same thing. Not sure if the new R/R is bad but will probably need to check both R/R and stator operation here in the coming weeks. Sorry for the threadjack Rich... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobicus Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 Tested the stator: Ok.. well, with the bike running, I get a whopping 2 volts AC across the pins, and 0 volts from the pins to ground. With the bike off, it appears that there's no resistance between any of the pins, full continuity, which basically means the stator's fucked. So... I'll be ordering a stator tomorrow. Next question: Should I replace the Reg Rect with the new one, or just run the old one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Involute Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Tested the stator: Ok.. well, with the bike running, I get a whopping 2 volts AC across the pins, and 0 volts from the pins to ground. With the bike off, it appears that there's no resistance between any of the pins, full continuity, which basically means the stator's fucked. So... I'll be ordering a stator tomorrow. Next question: Should I replace the Reg Rect with the new one, or just run the old one? I'd leave the old one in and pack the new one for long trips just in case. Where did you order your Stator from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobicus Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 My problem is almost the opposite. Datel voltmeter shows 14.5-14.6 normal and runs up to 14.9 sometimes 15.0 when high beam is on (HID high and low). Will drop down to 14.7 when heated grips are on and high beams lit. R/R replaced last year in October after my run to Hwy 36 with Chris, Steve, and Phil. Still doing the same thing. Not sure if the new R/R is bad but will probably need to check both R/R and stator operation here in the coming weeks. Where did you hook your Datel into the system? Direct tap off of the battery, or somewhere else? The volt meter on my radar detector is linked off of a relay directly connected to the battery. However, there's about 3-5 items wired parallel off of that relay, so the voltage available will bounce around a bit, based on what else I have going on. I had a similar deal happen with the 97 XX. This is a bit of a story: I um... "came across" a 01 stator and a 01 Rec Rect. (Sorry bout that, Joshypoo) and decided I wanted to add the extra capacity stator to the 97, as it was going to be my winter bike, and I wanted to be able to run the heated grips and vest without having to worry about available power. There's a big difference in the 2 Reg/Rects, however. The 97/98 reg rect has basically one red and one green wire, and connects to ground. Best as I can tell, it works by converting the AC to DC, then bleeding off any extra voltage to ground. The later model ones have 2 red and 2 green wires, and a (as I remember, White/Blue) wire that's the "voltage sense" wire. It's connected, if you follow the wiring diagram, to basically main system voltage. The later RRs work by sensing the system voltage, and adjusting the amount of power put back into the system based on the voltage it receives. Since the 97 didn't have a wire in the harness linking to main system voltage, I found it quite the challenge to find a reliable wire that I could use that wouldn't cause over charging. For example, if I put it BEFORE the tail light bulb, it would run up to about 14.4 volts. If I put it AFTER the tail light bulb, it would put out 15.5 volts, because the tail light bulb consumed some of the voltage before the tap to the RR sensor. Sorry for the threadjack Rich... Thank God your girlfriend's hot. You're forgiven. Tested the stator: Ok.. well, with the bike running, I get a whopping 2 volts AC across the pins, and 0 volts from the pins to ground. With the bike off, it appears that there's no resistance between any of the pins, full continuity, which basically means the stator's fucked. So... I'll be ordering a stator tomorrow. Next question: Should I replace the Reg Rect with the new one, or just run the old one? I'd leave the old one in and pack the new one for long trips just in case. Where did you order your Stator from? Haven't yet. Most likely will just order a stock one from my local dealer. They give me a BIT of a discount.. but also usually get shit next day. Got a better idea? I can call Mike Barth at UMotors in the morning, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Involute Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 My problem is almost the opposite. Datel voltmeter shows 14.5-14.6 normal and runs up to 14.9 sometimes 15.0 when high beam is on (HID high and low). Will drop down to 14.7 when heated grips are on and high beams lit. R/R replaced last year in October after my run to Hwy 36 with Chris, Steve, and Phil. Still doing the same thing. Not sure if the new R/R is bad but will probably need to check both R/R and stator operation here in the coming weeks. Where did you hook your Datel into the system? Direct tap off of the battery, or somewhere else? The volt meter on my radar detector is linked off of a relay directly connected to the battery. However, there's about 3-5 items wired parallel off of that relay, so the voltage available will bounce around a bit, based on what else I have going on. I had a similar deal happen with the 97 XX. This is a bit of a story: I um... "came across" a 01 stator and a 01 Rec Rect. (Sorry bout that, Joshypoo) and decided I wanted to add the extra capacity stator to the 97, as it was going to be my winter bike, and I wanted to be able to run the heated grips and vest without having to worry about available power. There's a big difference in the 2 Reg/Rects, however. The 97/98 reg rect has basically one red and one green wire, and connects to ground. Best as I can tell, it works by converting the AC to DC, then bleeding off any extra voltage to ground. The later model ones have 2 red and 2 green wires, and a (as I remember, White/Blue) wire that's the "voltage sense" wire. It's connected, if you follow the wiring diagram, to basically main system voltage. The later RRs work by sensing the system voltage, and adjusting the amount of power put back into the system based on the voltage it receives. Since the 97 didn't have a wire in the harness linking to main system voltage, I found it quite the challenge to find a reliable wire that I could use that wouldn't cause over charging. For example, if I put it BEFORE the tail light bulb, it would run up to about 14.4 volts. If I put it AFTER the tail light bulb, it would put out 15.5 volts, because the tail light bulb consumed some of the voltage before the tap to the RR sensor. Sorry for the threadjack Rich... Thank God your girlfriend's hot. You're forgiven. Tested the stator: Ok.. well, with the bike running, I get a whopping 2 volts AC across the pins, and 0 volts from the pins to ground. With the bike off, it appears that there's no resistance between any of the pins, full continuity, which basically means the stator's fucked. So... I'll be ordering a stator tomorrow. Next question: Should I replace the Reg Rect with the new one, or just run the old one? I'd leave the old one in and pack the new one for long trips just in case. Where did you order your Stator from? Haven't yet. Most likely will just order a stock one from my local dealer. They give me a BIT of a discount.. but also usually get shit next day. Got a better idea? I can call Mike Barth at UMotors in the morning, I suppose. Nope, no ideas. I'm just curious. I'm sure mine will shit the bed sometime so I'm just asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman_40 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Next question: Should I replace the Reg Rect with the new one, or just run the old one? I'd put the RR from a R1 on and be done with it. Never heard of anyone having issues with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneXX Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Next question: Should I replace the Reg Rect with the new one, or just run the old one? I'd put the RR from a R1 on and be done with it. Never heard of anyone having issues with it. I would put the new R/R in. You've got it ordered already and everything is apart so why dick around. Even if the old one is good for now, how much damage has been done that will bite you in the ass 837 miles from home in the middle of nowhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Involute Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Next question: Should I replace the Reg Rect with the new one, or just run the old one? I'd put the RR from a R1 on and be done with it. Never heard of anyone having issues with it. I would put the new R/R in. You've got it ordered already and everything is apart so why dick around. Even if the old one is good for now, how much damage has been done that will bite you in the ass 837 miles from home in the middle of nowhere? NEVER disagree with me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobicus Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 Next question: Should I replace the Reg Rect with the new one, or just run the old one? I'd put the RR from a R1 on and be done with it. Never heard of anyone having issues with it. I would put the new R/R in. You've got it ordered already and everything is apart so why dick around. Even if the old one is good for now, how much damage has been done that will bite you in the ass 837 miles from home in the middle of nowhere? NEVER disagree with me! You're sexy when you're angry. I may actually just swap it out and bring along the OLD one, just so Scot will want to grudge fuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 How did your connector look Rich? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobicus Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 How did your connector look Rich? All the connectors look great, Stan. No obvious signs of heat/corrosion, etc. Next question: Should I replace the Reg Rect with the new one, or just run the old one? I'd put the RR from a R1 on and be done with it. Never heard of anyone having issues with it. Not as simple with the EFI models... they work differently, and have different connectors/etc. See the above post about the conversion between the 2 varieties of connectors. Someone may correct me, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haWHYnXX Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Where did you hook your Datel into the system? Direct tap off of the battery, or somewhere else? The volt meter on my radar detector is linked off of a relay directly connected to the battery. However, there's about 3-5 items wired parallel off of that relay, so the voltage available will bounce around a bit, based on what else I have going on. Yeah, Datel is linked to a fuse block wired to a relay directly connected to the battery. The fuse block runs all kinds of shit. But I've checked the readings with hand voltmeter probes direct to battery posts and come up with the same readings - however this only at rest in the garage. Maybe I'll rewire the Datel directly and recheck while on the road? Sorry for the threadjack Rich... Thank God your girlfriend's hot. You're forgiven. The hottie gets me out of all kinds of trouble... :icon_eyebrows: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneXX Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Next question: Should I replace the Reg Rect with the new one, or just run the old one? I'd put the RR from a R1 on and be done with it. Never heard of anyone having issues with it. I would put the new R/R in. You've got it ordered already and everything is apart so why dick around. Even if the old one is good for now, how much damage has been done that will bite you in the ass 837 miles from home in the middle of nowhere? NEVER disagree with me! Scot: I'm sorry Rich: Put the old worn out half burned up parts back on and when you break down 837 miles from home in the middle of nowhere call Scot to cum get you There you happy now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexxus Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Don't fool around with old and new, Replace them both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp11XX Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Isn't there an aftermarket stator manufacturer out there that has a higher output stator for less than the factory version? Electrosport Industries aka: Electrex....they advertise a higher output unit. My personal experience with them is mixed and not directly related to the XX though....Ordered new stator, rotor, and R/R from them for my CB900F. Took 2 rotors, 3 stators, 3 R/R's to finally arrive at a working system. Process was slow since they were shipping me parts as I reported either a quick failure or dead right out of the box. Took almost a month to get the bike rolling. On the good side, their customer service was excellent, they never questioned my need of another unit being shipped, and they paid shipping both ways by sending prepaid call tags for the bad units. If I'm not mistaken, Electrex is UK based and Electrosport is the US branch. All their parts seem to be Chinese imports from the labeling on the packages I received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesail Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Rich, having checked out two R/R units that failed, both early versions, I would say that the stator failure is most likely caused by an R/R failure first. The R/R diodes were shorted, and this then places a dead short across one section of the stator winding. Later on the other parts will fail due to the increased loading. I would not reuse the old unit unless I was certain it was good, which I doubt in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobicus Posted May 1, 2008 Author Share Posted May 1, 2008 Here's the cause of the failure. See the bare wires. Must've been grounding to frame. Here's a closeup of the bare wires Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat830 Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Does this happen only to bikes that are loaded up with electronic gizmos running all the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willxx23 Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Does this happen only to bikes that are loaded up with electronic gizmos running all the time? I was kinda wondering that as well, mine is 8 yrs. old now and over 60K. I don't run any crap on it at all only occaisionally and I'm still on my original battery let alone the original stator and rr. :icon_think: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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