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Wire Loom Fix


porterb123

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I had simular problems with a bad fuel filter. 100’s of miles with no problems. Then surging, or cutting off.  No errors.

After all else fails electrically,  I took a SWAG, and changed the filter.

It got worse.😖

 

I lifted the tank again and saw that I had twisted the fuel line banjo bolt when I put the tank back.   The twisted fuel line was stopping almost all fuel flow.

I corrected my dumb assery,  and all has been good for the last 5k+ miles using a new filter.

01, with 55k miles on the clock when I started having problems.

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Red,

 

Thanks for the insight...the Filter has been mentioned before...but these symptoms sure are intermittent??

 

I didn't locate/ID the fuel filter when I went thru all the testing...where exactly is it, what's it look like & how much & where did you get it, if you remember all dat.

It's been two (day) rides since I "went thru all the motions" w/o actually finding anything obvious/visible, so I'll jst keep "test driving" it until the problem happens again...or so much time goes by that I forget it ever happened...until it happens again. (sic)

 

Thanks again.

I'll keep the thread updated....

 

 

~Bear

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Mine was very intermittent.  And sometimes, just cycling the ignition seemed to fix it.🤔

 

The filter was my last resort, and did the trick.  There were two types used. One that had straight exits, and a curved hose on it. (Flaps) has a close replacement for $10.00.  Or one with the metal curve. $50.00 on line.  Of course I needed the expensive one.

I have been researching fuel pump replacement for a friends beemer.

not all fuel line is the same. All carry fuel, but some melt when submerged.  

Get the good stuff, if you try to adapt the cheaper filter.

I would lift the rear of the tank and look at the fuel line routing. 

Someone may have been there before you.

Also take pictures of the other tubing attached to the tank. One is a vent, the other is a overflow.  They are both black.

7815B289-B163-4A0F-BD5D-EFEADCCC12B5.jpeg

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FWIW, here's a link to when I did the wire loom fix on my '99 XX.  For what benefit it helps, here you go.

 

I don't know if the fix was "needed" but I had a weird gremlin happen on a cross-country trip, and doing this was one way to address one of the possible causes.

 

 

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Aunt Zero,

 

Thank you so much for the pictures...this is why I actually joined the forum, b/c the pictures from the Wire-Loom fix were not showing/posted, so I thought joining would allow me to see them.

I now can see how different my connector looks on my 2003...the first pics (of the R/R?) really confused me as I didn't see those connectors on my Bird!! 

BTW - the symptoms of the R/R look a lot like the Stator Connector issue with the Aprilia, with the same type of fix PLUS one more....running a thicker wire from the Stator to the Battery (in parallel) to the skinny wire the Factory installed. 

 

Thanks again.

 

~Bear

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Red,

 

Thanks for the follow-up, appreciate the insights & the picture is worth a thousand words, just pure gold bro, thanks. Really.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to climb up onto the roof....and scream at the heavens!!

WTF put a "serviceable" item into the gas tank?! These should be changed every what 5K-10K miles...is that where the "spare" key is kept?!

Rubber hoses inside the gas tank?! WTF knows what (caustic) gas formula will be (Gov't) mandated next, around the world?!

Putting the Fuel Pump into the tank was bad enough...going from Bad to Worse! 

The answer BTW - A book-smart Engineer who does not swing his own wrench!! (sic)

But I digress...

 

Let me put this "shrimp-on-da-Barbie" for the crew chiming in on my issue....

What about a loose/dirty kickstand (KS) safety switch connection?

What would the symptoms be??

I've read about other bikes' "hacks" with problems relating to the KS safety switch, a real bummer to try & fix on da road (side)...

This just question occurred to me when I accidently hit the "shifter", as I was (trying) putting down the KS...just wondering what the old-timers thought about it.

 

BTW - The "Fi" problem has not re-surfaced again yet, since the weekend clean-up efforts (removed LED & Battery Tender wiring from Battery & sprayed E cleaner on ECM contacts).

 

Keep it in da wind.

 

~Bear

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I see no issues with the filter in the tank.  Unless you get really bad gas, you change it every 50K as a preventative measure.  Be more upset that there’s no cutoff for the fuel so you can easily detach the fuel lines and dismount the tank.  A requirement to clean/replace the air filter or change plugs.

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18 minutes ago, Aunt Zero said:

I see no issues with the filter in the tank.  Unless you get really bad gas, you change it every 50K as a preventative measure.  Be more upset that there’s no cutoff for the fuel so you can easily detach the fuel lines and dismount the tank.  A requirement to clean/replace the air filter or change plugs.

sometimes I agree with Mike.

32k for plugs, 50 k or more for a fuel filter, isn’t so bad.  Using good fuel, and riding often is best for your bike and your sanity.

You should see what you have to do to change a pump Bills k1200rs.   

 

I’m sure that you know it, but pull your battery before pulling your tank.  One slip and you scratch you tank.  Or use all of your fire extinguishers.

saftey first

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4 hours ago, Aunt Zero said:

I see no issues with the filter in the tank.  Unless you get really bad gas, you change it every 50K as a preventative measure.  Be more upset that there’s no cutoff for the fuel so you can easily detach the fuel lines and dismount the tank.  A requirement to clean/replace the air filter or change plugs.

 

No need to detach fuel lines. Tank can be "stood up" with the tail end in the  pocket behind the air filter, and the front standing straight up with all fuel lines still attached. Run gas down to less than 1 gallon, place fluffy towels behind air filter and stand tank up on them. I ran a rope from front of tank over the rafters for safety. If memory serves I disconnected some electrical wires, that's it.

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Well we can agree-to-disagree about da filter in da Tank sense...sounds like a maintenance deterrent to me....worked fine on da outside all these years. 

Don't like da rubber in da tank either, by hey whatever, as long as it works. (sic)

 

Now about da petcock/fuel lever...why, why, why?!!

I hate vacuum-operated petcocks...they sound good & elegant on paper but when they get old they tend to leak and they don't have a (manual) "off" position, so you have to get creative (rope to rafter) or drain the tank. You also have to get creative if you need to run the bike w/o the Tank in place...but I'm used to working on Carb'd bikes.

Why don't fuel-injected bikes have "Reserves"?

Never had a problem with a manual petcock and whenever I get a bike with a vacuum petcock I try to convert it if possible. 

Couldn't convert the Katana...they molded the Plastic (fairing) around it, I can't even turn it when I'm riding it's so awkward.

 

Red - Little confused about the "Battery removal" advise...do you mean disconnect or actually remove and how can it scratch the tank? What's a pump bills (k1200)?

 

Thanks for all the other tips too, always appreciate learnin' new stuff & rememberin' stuff I forget!

 

Birds' still runnin' fine too.

Keep it breezy.

 

~Bear

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Lets back up a bit. Fuel system with fuel injection is closed and pressurized. The engine only runs when fuel pump is on. There is no on/off petcock with reserve, only a fuel gauge with reserve light.

 

 The rope over the rafters (tied to the front of the tank) is merely to stabilize it, not to drain it. It doesn't have to be fully drained, only lightened for convenience.

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Roger dat...now answer the question...Why no reserve? Why no petcock?

Gauges are notoriously wrong/inconsistent, especially the digital ones...03' Birds don't have a (Reserve?) light, the last digit just starts to flash...how far we got Fiz?

Katana has a (analog) gauge & Reserve. The RF has no gauge, but a Reserve and a (low fuel) Light whose "brightness" is suppose to change. Awesome, let me focus on dat!

Petcock (manual) w/"off" allows for easy tank removal, no matter how much ya got in da tank...also how ya gonna stop a leak at the injector or any point past the tank fuel exit? 

No need fuel pump or running bike for leak...

The pumps' just in da Tank to keep it cool (noise?) & on a bike, to save space...

 

I understood the purpose of the rafter hook-up (stability), I was referring to Option B...actually draining the Tank (instead).

I haven't had to get into this bike that far, so far, but other bikes with similar set-ups have differing/limited access with the Tank tilted up, sometimes just enough to get to one of the plugs...with their "special" tool! Why/how do folks lose their bike's toolkits?!

 

Good times...

 

~Bear

 

 

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I have a 2000, which has fuel injection and analog gauges with low fuel light, comes on with 1 gal left. Don't know about the 03's.

 

My understanding is that the fuel pressure on injected engines is too much for exposed petcocks or inline filters. 

 

In any case, good to see you have kicked the gremlins to the curb.  Lets hope they stay there.

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5 hours ago, fizzy said:

No need to detach fuel lines. Tank can be "stood up" with the tail end in the  pocket behind the air filter, and the front standing straight up with all fuel lines still attached. Run gas down to less than 1 gallon, place fluffy towels behind air filter and stand tank up on them. I ran a rope from front of tank over the rafters for safety. If memory serves I disconnected some electrical wires, that's it.

 

I see no reason to fiddle with that kind of nonsense.  The Honda manual, for anything under the tank, tells you to drain tank, detatch lines, and remove tank.  That’s a pain for maintenance and a nightmare if it’s being done in the field.  So, I cut the lines and installed quick disconnects.  Did a DIY thread on it.  Sorry about the missing photos.

 

 

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I've had manual petcocks, and I've never had an old one that didn't leak so it's in an even race with the autos.  Actually, I've never had an auto that leaked, but only had a few of those.  The only use I see for a manual off is to run the carbs dry, something I do but very few others would.  Most people praise not having to fiddle with it and prefer having a light or gauge inform you it's time to fuel rather than running out of fuel then having to fumble for a valve while trying not to die.  The worst part is forgetting to turn it back after fueling so the next time it dies you don't have a reserve.  I don't find bike gauges/lights to be "notoriously inaccurate" but the reading will vary with angle more than on some cars.  With my SuperHawk I discovered that if you're going up a canyon when the light comes on you have a lot less left than if you'd been going down when it came on, luckily the gas station was at the bottom of the canyon so there was a lot of coasting but no walking involved.  As for not really knowing where true empty is on a bike's gauge, same applies for a car.  When I get a new one that I plan to keep any length of time I run it out to know where true empty is.

 

Pump, hoses, and filter in the tank; it's the best place for the pump. The filter has to go somewhere and in the tank beats being right above/near a hot engine.  The filter lasts a really long time so I don't see it as being in there a big deal.  Hoses are somewhat of a necessity.  Almost all cars have a pump and hoses in the tank, many have a "non-serviceable" filter in there too.  Most car tanks don't have a convenient access hatch and getting the tank out is a pain.

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Amen, I can relate to all dat, except the (manual) leaks, it became habit for me to turn mine off when I parked my bike, so perhaps the constant use (movement) kept it from leaking (?).

I also prefer a gauge of some type, if not that than an odometer/tripometer to keep track of the miles, before cruizin up da hill...

It also does not matter to me where the "Full" line is (car or bike), only where the most accurate "Empty" line is (analog gauges).

When it comes to vac-petcock leaks, it's often only noticed when trying to remove Tank b/c the gas keeps flowing, obviously we're not trying to remove the Tank from a running (on) bike, right? 

Bike gas gauges are relatively "new" to bikes, not really sure why (cost?).

VWs used to come the same way (gas lever), then went to wire (mechanical), then electric, like everything else.

Since I swing my own wrench I tend to see things from that perspective...I've also been "in the wind" since 77', so I carry a bit of baggage.

 

It's all good as long as we can still keep ridin'...

 

~Bear

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  • 10 months later...
On 9/29/2006 at 10:49 AM, porterb123 said:

Rode to work today and for the first time I noticed my fuel injection light flickering. Got home and pulled the rear cowl off, including my wingrack and got down to the test block on the left side near the rear passenger footpeg bracket to frame connection. Here's that pic...note the corrosion

IPB Image

Next pic is of the cap with prongs that I hooked a battery and test light up to to see which wires were connected

IPB Image

Next pic is of the block from what I am calling the front...non latch side, for wire color and grouping

IPB Image

This is the rear side shown for wire grouping

IPB Image

Next pic shows the front side group 1 of wires, 2 heavey gauge white with green stripe and smaller white with grey bar, to be tied together

IPB Image

Next is the front side group 2 wires 2 light gauge yellow with red stripe tied together

IPB Image

Next is group 3 front side of 2 smaller gauge green with grey bars and 1 larger gauge green tied together for a total of 8 wires on the front side

IPB Image

Last pic is of the rear side of the block...all 10 wires tied together

IPB Image

I solders these groupings together and taped up individually, the all into one and pointed it upwards and zip tied to the frame.

Yes it works and no more flickering light.

On the UK site, there was 1 more wires on the front side than mine. Those post are hot on my cap but there are no connecting wires to them. Must be for Euro accessories.

Took about 2 hrs for me including drawing a wire diagram and testing connections

WHY DON'T PICS SHOW UP  

 

 

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25 minutes ago, australiaray1 said:

WHY DON'T PICS SHOW UP  

 

The board has gone through a few major software updates and there was an "interruption" some time in the distant past.

 

There are a couple other threads on this with pics added BTW.

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Someone please confirm the steps?

 

1. Take off all the dang plastic.

2. Find the connector.

3. cut it off and solder the ends together.

4. insulate it, black electricians tape (cheap and easy), or cloth electricians tape and varnish, or conformal coating? 

 

https://www.ecmweb.com/content/electrical-taping-skills-lost-art

 

5. Put the dang plastic back on.

 

...have a beer.

Edited by XXitanium
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