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Wire Loom Fix


porterb123

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Greetings.

Thanks fellas for the insights...I followed both of you (threads) before reaching out for the pictures.

 

I cut-out the Ground (GND) Connector from the harness, it's yellow in color w/ 8 green wires & looks great (clean)...I'm hesitating to actually pull the Connector apart b/c I could break it in doing so...not a big deal (I can replace or solder) but may be unnecessary...don't like to fix things that ain't broke...at least until I get everything reliable & understood, don't want to add variables. 

I was just curious how the corrosion looked (exact location), b/c the wire loom looks tight & dry, so cutting it open further may just cause more damage than good.

 

I should mention that I'm located in SoCal...i.e the desert, so there's not much rain/wetness in these here parts, when there is that's what the 4-wheeled vehicles were made for (weather), right?

 

Basically what's happening is that sometimes, now with increasing frequency, the bike starts to lurch, then the Fi light goes on to varying brightness, the bike continues to operate, but the lurching is scary...I pulled-in the clutch the other day when it started doing it & the motor was revving itself, dats scary!

 

When I shut her down/off the Fi light does not stay-on or flash when I start her up again, so no failure codes flashing...although I thought "once" it did flash (code) after starting, but ran great until the next occurrence.

 

Any ideas besides the "other" loom under the tank?

Could it be simple Battery corrosion? I noticed a little on the Neg. terminal when I disconnected it prior to searching for the GND Connector.

 

I should mention also that since I got her it seems that the gauges take turns not working...but recover on nxt start-up.

Besides that she's been perfect...I wish the throttle turning-force was adjustable (it has Kurkiayn grips), hitting a bump, especially on a turn is "exciting". Ideas?

 

Any insights appreciated.

Thanks again.

 

 

~Bear

 

 

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Simple stuff that has actually worked in the past:

Unplug the ECM and plug it back in.  Seriously, just removing the plug and reinstalling has made a difference for some.

Check all your ground connections to chassis.  That would take a manual when you get into the gauges (not sure if there even is one up there but I would assume so), but the ones next to the tank bolts are easy to get to.  I added a ground from battery to frame and from that exact same point to the engine to eliminate any chance of a ground loop.

What you don't want to hear:

You might want to check and make sure your rectifier isn't failing.  Put a meter on the battery while the bike is running.  If the voltage is going above mid 14's, you've got a problem.  One of mine shot up to 17-18 volts and all kinds of stuff went crazy.  They usually fail dead (no charge) but of course one of mine would go the other way.  Actually boiled the battery on the bike in my profile pic.

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Other than the gauges, your symptoms are similar to what people get with the ground/test connector is corroded.  If you don't see corrosion on that connector you should be good there, no need to take it apart or cut anything up.  Mine had obvious corrosion on the terminals and it had started traveling up the wires so I cut & soldered.  My bike came from the Arizona desert to my SoCal desert.  No clue where it lived before Arizona and it shows signs of having lived outside in the weather.  Washing the bike can also put water into stuff.  From memory the connector is just a copper strip with a plastic cover that all the wires plug into.  I'd be tempted to remove the plastic just to make it easier to seal it up and then tape back onto the harness to keep it clean looking.

 

Bad connections at the battery, chassis grounds, rectifier mounting, and any other 'main' connections could cause multiple issues.  I've read that there's another multi wire connection near the instruments that can also suffer corrosion issues, but I've never dug into it so no details to share.  Others have had bad contacts at the stop switch cause issues similar to the test connector.  The ignition switch could maybe do this too.  What I would do is take the seat off and with the engine idling wiggle connectors, fuses, relays, switches, etc. and hopefully you'll find the culprit.

 

As far as the throttle, I don't have issues with it and haven't read about others having them.  Maybe yours has a defect or some modification that's making it more sensitive.  It could also just be you, your riding position or something.

 

Where in SoCal are you?  If you're not too far we can get together to compare your throttle feel to mine.  I also have a manual you can borrow if you'd like.

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I did have throttle issues with my Ducati 999s.  I think a combination of the throttle sensitivity plus mostly my riding position using the handlebars to hold my body weight instead of supporting myself.

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Codes won't flash on startup unless you jump the plug back in the tail section. I forget the exact process off the top of my head but hopefully someone with a better memory or a manual will chime in.

 

If it's not a bad ground (which is a good possibility), it might be worth checking the fuel pressure regulator. That doesn't explain your electrical symptoms but it might explain your surging.

 

Throttle sensitivity, like Oscar said, get your weight off the bars and keep your arm and grip relaxed. Your arm should be absorbing shocks between your body and the throttle, not transferring them. Watch some off road or motocross racing and think how ugly that would get if they kept their throttle arm and hand rigid. Relax and that problem goes away.

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To pull codes there's an empty two wire connector by the ECU.  You stick a wire in it to short the two connectors and turn the key on.  The FI light will then flash 2 digit fault codes.  When my test connector was corroded I had a bunch of codes.  I didn't suggest this earlier since it appears you have several electrical problems that probably stem from one fault somewhere, but no harm in pulling codes just to know.  I think, but not sure, that the codes get erased every time you turn the key off.  If so, it may show none 'till you run it and the problem develops, then gotta short the connector before turning it off.

 

If you're close enough and wanna bring it by I can give you a hand, just PM me for contact info.

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Feelin' da love!!

Thanks to everyone who weighed-in, much appreciated. Really.

 

So an update...I rolled her out in da sun and "ohm'd-out" the GND connector with DVM...all contacts @ zero ohms (excellent).

Wrapped Connector in tape & then made rubber-boot (from sheet-rubber) similar to what Honda put on some of the other electrical connections, zip-tied it & stuffed it up & away.

 

Found Scorpio Alarm system (not hooked-up), so removed that mystery of wires.

Also found (already knew) LED lighting set-up w/separate on/off switch, cleaned it up & kept it in place for now. 

Found the 2-pin Test Connector in back...AND found two "mystery" wires (brown & green) cut right next to it w/ no end connector?? 

 

Should mention I have a Manual & Shop Book...I'm that guy, so I'll trace where/what the wires are for, eventually, want to stay focused on current symptoms/problem.

I've heard some models have extra wires for "foreign" accessories or regulations, but these look "cut"...it may be related to the LED turn-signal mod that was added prior, since it's by the  bullet-connector mess that resulted.

 

Regarding the "throttle" issue, you may have a point.

The Bird is known for it's comfort...but not for me. It puts weird pressure on my wrists & the Kurkayn grips don't really feel round so I tend to grab/hold them differently....

 

Confession...I currently have 6 bikes in my garage (it's shameful, I know, it's a problem) BUT I ride them all....that's why I'm not throwing a whole lot of custom-detail effort at them individually. 

If I only had 1 bike I would throw all the deluxe gear on it to make it "perfect" for me, but now bikes are just disposable to me b/c they're so damn cheap...I swing my own wrench.

 

So anywho, I put it all together again, cleaning the Battery & ends.

It rode great, but I have trust issues now, so I'll have to drive it in circles for awhile...

I will check the output of the Rectifier, that's a common issue among bikes (Aprilia) and an easy fix.

 

Question: Is disconnecting the Battery the same as "unplugging the ECU", the reason I ask is b/c some systems may have some kinda back-up to keep da "brains" alive during Battery swap...seems like it had the correct time yesterday after I hooked it back up & rode. Coincidence? Only clock has back-up?

 

Assume nothing...it may make sense to those who know the answer.

 

I'm down in South Orange County, CA...Camp Pendleton.

Thanks again for all the insights.

I can't "duplicate" the problem which is very frustrating, so I just gotta nurse it for now.

If I find a smoking gun I'll update the Forum...

 

Ride safe everyone.

 

~Bear

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Fingers crossed.

 

Assuming that alarm system had an engine kill that could mess with it.  I've had a couple cases of abandoned but still connected alarms giving no-starts because the "kill" relay contacts started going bad.  In one case it would randomly not start in early morning, but would always start after 11 am or so.  After the sun had warmed the cab enough to warm up the relay a little causing the contacts to shift just enough to conduct.  That one took a few visits to figure out.

 

Your confession is unaccepted without an inventory list.

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Feelin' da love!!

Thanks to everyone who weighed-in, much appreciated. Really.

 

So an update...I rolled her out in da sun and "ohm'd-out" the GND connector with DVM...all contacts @ zero ohms (excellent).

Wrapped Connector in tape & then made rubber-boot (from sheet-rubber) similar to what Honda put on some of the other electrical connections, zip-tied it & stuffed it up & away.

 

Found Scorpio Alarm system (not hooked-up), so removed that mystery of wires.

Also found (already knew) LED lighting set-up w/separate on/off switch, cleaned it up & kept it in place for now. 

Found the 2-pin Test Connector in back...AND found two "mystery" wires (brown & green) cut right next to it w/ no end connector?? 

 

Should mention I have a Manual & Shop Book...I'm that guy, so I'll trace where/what the wires are for, eventually, want to stay focused on current symptoms/problem.

I've heard some models have extra wires for "foreign" accessories or regulations, but these look "cut"...it may be related to the LED turn-signal mod that was added prior, since it's by the  bullet-connector mess that resulted.

 

Regarding the "throttle" issue, you may have a point.

The Bird is known for it's comfort...but not for me. It puts weird pressure on my wrists & the Kurkayn grips don't really feel round so I tend to grab/hold them differently....

 

Confession...I currently have 6 bikes in my garage (it's shameful, I know, it's a problem) BUT I ride them all....that's why I'm not throwing a whole lot of custom-detail effort at them individually. 

If I only had 1 bike I would throw all the deluxe gear on it to make it "perfect" for me, but now bikes are just disposable to me b/c they're so damn cheap...I swing my own wrench.

 

So anywho, I put it all together again, cleaning the Battery & ends.

It rode great, but I have trust issues now, so I'll have to drive it in circles for awhile...

I will check the output of the Rectifier, that's a common issue among bikes (Aprilia) and an easy fix.

 

Question: Is disconnecting the Battery the same as "unplugging the ECU", the reason I ask is b/c some systems may have some kinda back-up to keep da "brains" alive during Battery swap...seems like it had the correct time yesterday after I hooked it back up & rode. Coincidence? Only clock has back-up?

 

Assume nothing...it may make sense to those who know the answer.

 

I'm down in South Orange County, CA...Camp Pendleton.

Thanks again for all the insights.

I can't "duplicate" the problem which is very frustrating, so I just gotta nurse it for now.

If I find a smoking gun I'll update the Forum...

 

Ride safe everyone.

 

~Bear

 

OKay...I'm back from my putt....

No problems noted...damn! But I am more sensitive to how I'm holdin' da (throttle) grip...I've never been so affected, after all this time..(sic)

 

Put da DVM on da Battery...I'm gettin 13.65 V @ idle and 14.4 @ ~5K rpm. Dat would work for a (old-school) 12V car...Birds more sensitive? Any hands?

I think the two cut "mystery" wires (in tail-section turn-signal wire-bunch in rubber cup) could be for a "Meter Light", which I interpret as perhaps "gauge-cluster light" (?).

I'll check some night, if I think about it, don't like riding at night anymore.

 

Current Sinful Toys:

94" Suzki RF600 - $1000 - Delivered with choice of helmet. Needed idle-mixture screw re-inserted. 1st Street bike (4 yrs) after 30 yrs. on an HD!!

  $75097' Suzuki Katana 750 - Parts bike. Too nice to toss. Love ebay for parts. _$750 -Delivered. Smooth power. Best throttle-feel (Jet). There's a reason they havent changed much.

 

97' Kaw Vulcan 1500 - Found for neighbor. Wife vetoed. Al Martinez paintjob, windshield, footboards, backrest, VH exhaust. luggage. - $1500 - Where's a bank?!

98' Kaw Vulcan 800 - 6" over, 12" Apes, Chopped rear fender, Forward Controls. Drag pipes. - $1200 - So comfortable you almost fall asleep on it. Died drivin' it home from Imperial Beach . Hit black landscape barrel on Freeway @ night (now I'm a scardy cat @ night), Calif Law says it was my fault. Good times...

03' Honda Blackbird - Black & drippin' in chrome, hazy & peeling & it adds weight, but she's so shiny @ 10 ft'!! After-market Yosy pipes, Cats fell off. - $3000 = 1st time I've had plastics off.

'04 Aprilia Futura - Love @ first-sight...they wanted $1500 for Beetle bags for da Bird! - $1200 -  A bike way ahead of it's time. Great luggage.

 

Looking maybe for a VFR just to see...I got a problem, I know...;-)

 

~Bear

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Your voltage readings are good, nothing to worry about there.

 

Did you drink, smoke, snort, or inject before that post?  Just curious what it was and how much was used.  No judgement.

Edited by superhawk996
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3 hours ago, XXitanium said:

 

Jealous maybe?

Mine often change after a few drinks, that last being one example.  His last post read completely differently than the previous ones.  While I coulda just asked why, my half drunk .orgness came out so I got right to it.

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Remain calm folks...I do have (past) experience with all of the above, but can't blame it on dat this time!

 

If the comment is about the Bike listings format, the website actually started to malfunction, not allowing for "backspace" correction or deletions...I'm a tech writer so I really wordsmith my docs b/c there's a big difference between "knowing/understanding what I said" & "knowing/understanding what I meant", so I try to be very careful since the written word does not include voice inflection or body language. My apologies...unless that comment was motivated by da little-green-envy. LMAO!!!

 

BTW - Drove da Bird to work today (Monday)...died twice (low idle) and "maybe" lurched once...I'm developing "trust" issues! Faultless on Sunday's putt.

When I got to work I turned up the idle to ~1,500 rpm, it was @ ~ 1,100 rpm AND worked great for a year, then the ghost-in-da-machine appeared!

That's also why I don't want to "throw the kitchen sink at it" and have the problem just magically disappear...confession time...I'm a root-cause Failure Analyst for the Tech industry.

 

It's funny, this was my first "fuel injected" vehicle...now I hear all the arguments of Inject vs. Carb...reminds me of my dear old Dad's words..."just another thing to go wrong."

The older I get, the smarter my parents become...and I'm a senior citizen now!

The Aprilia is also Injected & has a really chunky throttle at low speeds...never had a Carb issue except for cold-bloodedness.

 

Dats da news from da West Coast, down South...

 

~Bear

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Funny, we recently had a root cause conversation going as well as some carb vs injection stuff.  Many hate carbs, a few rather have them.  I don't care either way, but carbs generally won't suddenly crap out like injection can and aren't reliant on fuel pressure so they can be more reliable.  Other than the cold start I didn't notice any real difference between my '97 and '01 Birds' performance.

 

My Ducati had a little bit of a rough idle/low throttle issue, not so much to know something was wrong, just seemed like it could be better.  I reset the TPS and it was cured, I think I also did some adjustments but don't remember.  I think Aprilia has a similar issue where the idle position tends to 'drift' out of spec.  I got a wire harness & software off ebay that let me plug the laptop into the bike to see what was going on and do the re-set, pretty sure they have them for Aprilia also.

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Dats what I'm talkin' about brother...Amen!

Like tinkering with V-8s, the older ones are just more fun to wrench on, if that's part of the game/dream for ya.

I just hate feeling helpless with nothing tangible or repeatable...I'm so "over-aware" of how I'm holding the throttle now too. Damn aftermarket grips...

Didn't Honda have an ECU update about a throttle issue on the earlier Birds?

I'm going to have double-check all the GND connections everywhere...and maybe add a couple if there are some that are hidden/unknown/missing.

Could be all dat damn chrome dats goin-to-shit, maybe that's jackin' a GND somewhere?

Just went outside (dark) to check my dash...doesn't look like a "meter light" is "out"...I need to look at another dash...the Tach has a dimish spot in the 2 o'clock??

As for the Aprilia, the idle is not adjustable "manually", which is B.S.!!, and mine does have the "updated" map installed...but who wants to hook-up a computer to change da idle!! C'mon!

I'm thinkin' about tearing into the airbox to see if there are any "emission" restrictions which may (temporarily for test-purposes get lost) make the bottom-end smoother at low speed (turns)...

I'll keep ya updated...

Keep da greasy-side down...

 

~Bear

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Don't know of any ECU updates for the Bird.  Some, maybe most, have a lean spot just off idle that can make them a little jerky, it's a fairly common thing with may bikes.  Mine doesn't have it at all.  I don't know if that's a 2001 programming thing or if I just got lucky, or maybe just don't feel it.

 

I think the Duc's idle adjustment also involved a computer connection and gaining access to "sealed for emissions" screws.  It pisses me off to need a computer to make adjustments, but on the flip side, proper adjustments on an old school car engine involved a timing light, dwell meter, a propane enrichment device, and CO meter, and doing those adjustments every 30k miles.  Then we look at non-Italian bikes and they put an adjustment screw where you can tweak it while riding, even tho it never needs it.  Valves that rarely or never need adjustment and timing chains that last forever.  Japs also provide automatic cold start high idle instead of a fucking lever, might as well have carbs if you're gonna have to use a manual cold start device.  The lesson here isn't to avoid modern stuff, it's to avoid Italian stuff.  That said, I miss my Duc.

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True all true....

I don't "hate" on the modern gear, there's often good reasons for them (i.e. hydraulic brakes & suspension), I just don't run at every new thing...plus as a FA Engineer I only play with the broken toys...like (making) sausage, ya really don't want to know. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! The more integration the smaller the defect to cause major (unfixable/non-workaround) issues to numerous systems, all at once.

I don't know what's up with Italian & British electronics...are they trying to save money on wire?! LOL

 

Last night she was flawless....

Well this morning (way to work) Vanessa was all jerky & lurching...I just can't trust dat "Ho"(nda) no mo'!

I had enough time to check throttle position (way off idle) & even shut her down & started her back up again, but she was buckin' like a bronc, with the idle dropping down to almost zero.

If dat happened in a turn it'd be "down time", no bueno!

I'm gonna try & pull a code, if possible & just check all the GND connections...it was running so perfect until now...:-(

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Hey Bear,

 When gremlins lurk somewhere in the machine, all confidence in a trouble free ride is lost. I went thru a similar thing 18 months and 9k miles ago. So far so good. In my case it was electrical in nature.

If I have this right

Your symptoms:

Gauges fail, motor cuts out,  also mystery  wires cut

 

First off, you may have a bad battery, or charging system. Permanently mount 12v meter to dash.  12 to  14.2v ok, depending on rpm.

 

Before we can say any electrical component is bad you should disconnect every connector 1 at a time, clean, inspect and reattach. Fuel pump, ECM everything. (disconnect battery  1st). Make sure ECM is strapped down.

In my case I did all the above + "loom fix" + added additional grounds to end of loom by headlights + new stator + new FH020AA mosfet R/R. 

 

Also, have you tested fuel pump and /or filters?

 

By the way, what about the mystery wires?

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Fizzy,

Welcome to the thread.

Appreciate all the insights, will keep in mind as I tear into her this weekend.

 

If you follow the thread, you'll see that I have already checked the Battery & Rectifier function, but an intermittent issue could still exist...I often find myself "over-thinking" problems, it's nice to get a fresh perspective. I am hoping to find a "simpler" problem/cause issue...

 

The fuel pump & filter have not been checked, yet, but the issue seems "too intermittent", unless the fuel pump has a loose (electrical) connection...I'm not really sure where it's located at, at the moment (in fuel inj cars they're in the fuel tank)...

 

The "cut" mystery wires (green/black w brown stripe) are still a mystery, but they have been "cut" the entire time I've owned the bike (~1 yr), and the other night I checked the dash lighting (meter light?) & it looks fine...

 

How do you strap down the ECM? Mine just sits in a well on the back of the bike...does everyone else have a hold-down strap/clamp on theirs?

 

In your response you do not note how/when you did all the mods...was it methodical (1 by 1) or shotgun (kitchen sink)?

I'd like to find the actual "cause & effect", but sometimes ya just gotta cut bait....

 

Thanks again.

If you think of somethin' else, don't be shy.

I'll keep the thread/forum updated...it may take awhile since I have several horses in da stable.

 

Let's ride...

~Bear

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Hot wire ( 12 V ) fuel pump. Throw cheap on/off switch in it , ride like that for couple of days. Fuel pump assembly is at the bottom of the tank, you`ll find fuel filter there as well. If you decide to mess with filter wait till the tank is almost empty. Much easier to handle things that way. Honda`s fuel filter is something like 50 bucks, I was able to find something similar from auto parts store for couple $.

When my filter was done bike did run fine except there was no steam on top end of powerband.

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The ECM is strapped down with a large rubber O ring. It hooks on small ears on either side. I used 3/16" elastic bungee cord from a hardware store as mine was missing. Very important, this could be source of random ailments.

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Nuggets of gold!! Thanks fellas for the tips...

I'm about to tear into her, it's a lazy sunny Saturday with a perfect breeze...no surf.

Gonna look for/at GND connections first, check ECM & strap down....lookin for somethin' obvious. 

I'll keep ya updated.

 

~Bear

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Well just came back from a long putt...got a whole lot of nada to report!!

She ran flawless, thru Town in a 1-on-1 w/Ferrari and a longer triple-digit run into the Country, Butta baby!!

 

I checked the GND cable & connection to the Battery with a DVM and then all over the frame & motor...couldn't get a single Ohm of Resistance anywhere.

Everything was dry & tight.

Disconnected Cable from Battery and put DVM on end & started pulling/moving to check conductivity consistency of Cable. Perfect. Battery was at 12.5V (parked a week).

 

Someone mentioned "Gas tank Grounds" (?), I did not see any and the two rear mounting-bolts are rubber-isolated.

Other than the two wires-to-frame on the left back-side under tank I did not see any specific GND connections, other than the Neg Battery terminal to motor.

 

The only thing "off was the Charcoal can vent line, which could have slipped-off when I lifted the tank.

 

Disconnected the ECM, both Connectors looked good, sprayed both sides with Electric Contact Cleaner, reassembled & secured to bike with (small) Bungee cord.

Disconnected the LED lighting & Battery Tender wiring from Battery to remove ANY variables.

Checked Fuel Pump bolts to GND (Battery), zero Ohms.

 

Anyone know exactly where any/all GND connections are?

Does anyone know what that little plastic hook on the right-side of the Tool Tray is for?

 

I think the flawless run(s) also rules out the Fuel pump & Filter (which I did not see/recognize) as the problem...right?!

I still have trust issues & can't commit to any real corners...don't know what to do, but ride her & wait & see...

 

 

 

 

 

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You done all you can, that bike is just fucked and you're smart for not trusting it.  Even tho you're new here, I'll extend the love of the brotherhood and relieve you of that POS.  I won't charge the usual disposal fee and I'll even give you a ride home as long as you're buying the roadies.  One time offer and it expires when I sober up and come to my senses.

 

 

You've done a fair bit of checking and tweaking and may have already fixed whatever was wrong.

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Oh wow, really feelin' da love...

But you didn't extend the offer until 7:30 p.m.!!

It's already dark and you know what a scardy cat I am ridden' in the dark...but to be able to get rid of this untrustworthy Ho for free & then get to ride Bitch on da back of your cool bike, oh boy what a deal!!

We'll probably both wake with regrets & hangovers....I'll keep ya updated though.....

 

Gonna try takin' her to work again Monday.

Any more "fixin'" ideas before we head down dat dark road again?

 

~Bear

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