SR71BLACKBIRDXX Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Well..I got about 1000 miles on my 3rd CCT in 10000 miles and the cam chain is noisy as a fuck. So here it is.... Really a simple device. You have the body of it, a slinky-type spring, the actual lifter itself and the threaded piece it screws into. If youve taken an old one out and stuck a small screwdriver in the ass end of the CCT, youll notice that as you turn the threaded part, it will retract the lifter and as you let the screwdriver go, the lifter extends. Its physically impossible to push the lifter back in after it has extended..(unless you do the screwdriver trick). This is why I cant understand why the fuck the cam chain gets so noisy. Anyway..... I took it apart and wound the spring up tighter then installed the lifter...in other words I gave it more tension. installed it and guess what...no more noise and much, much smoother. Im taking a long ride now...Ill post up later on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I found that anytime I removed and installed the same cct it was quiet for a time. Would be interesting to see how that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runninn Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Is the CCT rattle the biggest noise issue? When do these noises usually begin (after 10k, etc.) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sykotek-xx Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Is the CCT rattle the biggest noise issue? When do these noises usually begin (after 10k, etc.) ? I've got 9,800 on mine and I'm starting to hear the marbles in a coffee can on the first cold startup of the day now and then. Started at about 8,500 miles. As far as I know, the CCT and chain never actually fail, just get noisy. It's an easy fix. People hear "Cam chain" and get all nervous, when in reality the tensioner is an external part and a 15 minute job including removing plastic for access. How did that long ride go? Well..I got about 1000 miles on my 3rd CCT in 10000 miles and the cam chain is noisy as a fuck. So here it is.... Really a simple device. You have the body of it, a slinky-type spring, the actual lifter itself and the threaded piece it screws into. If youve taken an old one out and stuck a small screwdriver in the ass end of the CCT, youll notice that as you turn the threaded part, it will retract the lifter and as you let the screwdriver go, the lifter extends. Its physically impossible to push the lifter back in after it has extended..(unless you do the screwdriver trick). This is why I cant understand why the fuck the cam chain gets so noisy. Anyway..... I took it apart and wound the spring up tighter then installed the lifter...in other words I gave it more tension. installed it and guess what...no more noise and much, much smoother. Im taking a long ride now...Ill post up later on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR71BLACKBIRDXX Posted August 23, 2006 Author Share Posted August 23, 2006 As far as I know, the CCT and chain never actually fail, just get noisy. It's an easy fix. People hear "Cam chain" and get all nervous, when in reality the tensioner is an external part and a 15 minute job including removing plastic for access. How did that long ride go? The problem with your statement is that its not the CCT getting noisy, its the cam chain itself developing slack and causing the rattle. It can cause loss of power due to incorrect cam timing, premature wear and eventually failure. Alot of people mistake the PAIR valve for the noise and especially in the morning at startup. I blocked mine off and its much quieter during cold starts. CC noise is a much different sound and it seems to make the most noise @ 4000 rpm. Did 100 miles with no noise, but it will most likely return someday...either that or the CCT will fail because I modified it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G4XX Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I have my "new" X11 CCT in the bag still.....i guess i should get around to installing it sometime soon. Thanks for the pic and info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman_40 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I found that anytime I removed and installed the same cct it was quiet for a time. Would be interesting to see how that goes. I found that if you remove the bolt at the back, use a small screw driver to turn it back in all the way and let it "snap" out that the noise goes away for a while. First time I tired it noise was gone for at least a tank of fuel, after the first time it started coming back faster. But this is a easy test to make sure the noise is coming from the CCT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simssearch165 Posted August 27, 2006 Share Posted August 27, 2006 I performed the same procedure on my 02 Blackbird today and she definently quieted down. I think the only noise I hear at 4k is in my imagination. I'll post back if there is a change. :icon_clap: Well done SR71! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR71BLACKBIRDXX Posted August 27, 2006 Author Share Posted August 27, 2006 Have done a few hundred miles since..and still very quiet... We'll see... :icon_think: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PredatorXX Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 CCT noise could it only come at a certain rpm? Say 4000? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkyler Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 CC noise could definitely show up around 4000...3800-4000 is the resonant frequency of the XX engine..the rpm at which it vibrates most. ...and whatever's loose...will make the most noise around this rpm. The noise usually shows up more when the engine gets hotter and the cam chain has a chance to warm up a bit, expand and loosen...it's just damn annyoing. I can't wait to get to TeXXT and let some others hear it and see what they think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearXX Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I got 27.500 miles on my bike, and never had any noise from it. Is this something all has experienced ? :icon_shifty: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo63 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 just get D&D and CCT noise will become non-issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaygermeister Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 just get D&D and CCT noise will become non-issue :icon_lmao: The noise is in the 3k to 4k RPM's .............. the new CCT is $35+/- from John and way way easy to change out. NO BIGGIE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOXXIC Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Betweem D&D pipes and Migs I've never heard my CCT. If I do, I have an X-11 waiting in a drawer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sykotek-xx Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Just did this. Bike is much quieter, if I pull in the clutch, it is silent except the exhaust note. Just another thought, seems like it might work... If you just pull the one bolt that holds on the panel bracket over the CCT, you can get to it pretty good leaving the side cowl on. Take out the factory bolt in the center, and using a thin flathead, just lightly tighten down the tensioner. Perhaps the problem is insufficient spring tension to push the plunger against the cam chain guide, and just setting it down a bit with a screwdriver might quiet it down without actually removing the tensioner. Just light light pressure, not enought to put too much tension on the chain and wear the guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR71BLACKBIRDXX Posted September 29, 2006 Author Share Posted September 29, 2006 Perhaps the problem is insufficient spring tension to push the plunger against the cam chain guide, and just setting it down a bit with a screwdriver might quiet it down without actually removing the tensioner. Just light light pressure, not enought to put too much tension on the chain and wear the guide. Thats definately the culprit. Now with about 1000 miles since Ive done this, I can hear the noise stating to return. I figured it would. Doing what you describe will not really help much, and now I know why... Yesterday I stuck a screwdriver in the end of the CCT with the bike running and revved it through the 4000 rpm range. Guess what..ITS ACTUALLY UNSCREWING ITSELF!!!! I couldnt believe it. The harmonics in that rev range are actually turning the screw back and retracting the lifter part. I didnt think it was possible but that is whats happening. I got a long metric bolt and screwed it in until it was lightly touching the screw and guess what?? No more noise. So more spring tension could be enough to overcome the harmonics, but I dont want to fuck with it again. im thinking a small set screw in the body of the CCT to just lightly touch the screw and then replace the original bolt and washer on the end might cure it??? It will allow the lifter to extend still, but not retract any. Should have kept the VFR...then again..Who gives a fuck If I do, I have an X-11 waiting in a drawer. Im serious....how much you want for it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZDave Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 ITS ACTUALLY UNSCREWING ITSELF!!!! I couldnt believe it. Now there is something I wouldn't have thought of. What about a rubber bung down the end of the hole. The cover bolt would press on the screw enough to dampen the harmonic vibration and stop it unscrewing itself? Small piece of vacume hose or similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR71BLACKBIRDXX Posted September 29, 2006 Author Share Posted September 29, 2006 Maybe, but you dont want to bind the screw itself. It may not retract, but it may not extend either. It just bugs me. im sure it will never fail..but its the point of it I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warchild Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Yesterday I stuck a screwdriver in the end of the CCT with the bike running and revved it through the 4000 rpm range. Guess what..ITS ACTUALLY UNSCREWING ITSELF!!!! I couldnt believe it. Mike, you've gone through three CCT units to this opoint, is that correct? Did I read this thread too fast, or were all of your CCTs of the old design (the pre X-11 version)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Another idea, maybe the CCT is supposed to unscrew a little bit? At Yanmar, we had a cam chain tensioner that was spring loaded. Under large RPM changes, the tensioner actually moved quite a bit to allow for lash. Just a thought? Of course, there's always this option. Linky poo to article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 As stated on the website: APE manual cam chain tensioners are designed to replace the automatic and hydraulic tensioners on high performance engines. The automatic adjusters can back out when the throttle is closed suddenly at high rpm. This allows the cams to go momentarely out of time, and can result in bent valves and/or serious engine damage. Hydraulic tensioners have a tendency to put too much tension on the chain guide under high rpm/high oil pressure conditions, resulting in premature wear. Actually the XX doesn't have a hydraulic tensioner so the part about too much tension doesn't hold true in this instance. Overall, Under the throttle closing insance, I agree the CCT must take up for the mometary slack. Under the high RPM conditon, I agree that the CCT should back off a bit. But, the XX CCT only moves out because of the design correct? So in theory, the design of the XX's CCT is faulted from day one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Can anyone tell me why the XX doesn't use a simple spring type tensioner, just like most cars? This of course is a belt not a chain but the concept still holds true. The belt runs the cams, among other things, and seems to handle te changes in tension and RPM adeqately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR71BLACKBIRDXX Posted September 29, 2006 Author Share Posted September 29, 2006 Mike, you've gone through three CCT units to this opoint, is that correct? Did I read this thread too fast, or were all of your CCTs of the old design (the pre X-11 version)? Your correct. When I bought the bike it was noisy so I replaced it. Replaced again about 7000 miles later and the last time maybe a month or so ago. All have been the double green dot. I have no idea what the "pre X-11" one is. Again..im not worried about it failing, but Id like to get to the bottom of it... Overall, Under the throttle closing insance, I agree the CCT must take up for the mometary slack. Under the high RPM conditon, I agree that the CCT should back off a bit Im not sure I agree with that. If it was designed to back off, why make the guts of it the way they do. A simple spring loaded device would probably work. And why does it back off, then go back in after that harmonic range of rpm?? Try it someday. It only moves in that rev range, then never moves all the way up to 11000 rpm. Chop the throttle and nothing happens either..until the needle swings back through 4500 rpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 Overall, Under the throttle closing insance, I agree the CCT must take up for the mometary slack. Under the high RPM conditon, I agree that the CCT should back off a bit Im not sure I agree with that. If it was designed to back off, why make the guts of it the way they do. A simple spring loaded device would probably work. And why does it back off, then go back in after that harmonic range of rpm?? Try it someday. It only moves in that rev range, then never moves all the way up to 11000 rpm. Chop the throttle and nothing happens either..until the needle swings back through 4500 rpm That's exactly my point, maybe it's not designed to back off when it should have been? I know, I know, not Mother Honda making an engineering mistake but look at the duty requirements of this part. Hydraulic CCT's are designed to work off of the engine's oil system, and it's pressure. Under high RPM, the oil pressure goes up and therfore CCT pressure increases. Under lower RPM operation, pressure drops and CCT pressure drops. I think that movement, both back and forth, are required? If I'm correct, then the current CCT is not designed correctly and a simple spring loaded unit would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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