birdie_xx Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 I'm expecting the fork Race Tech kit to arive today :cool: I ordered the springs, Gold valve kit, rebound kit and their oil... I have new seals from Honda, but I was also told I'll need the bushings as well. The bike has 45K milles. Has anybody replaced those ? If so how did you know you needed to, and how many miles were on your bike when you did that ? Is it a difficult job ? I imagine it's messy :sad: I know this has been touched before, but I thought maybe there are some new experiences and opinions ..... Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Mine were done around 25k when the RaceTech stuff went it. Probably didn't need to be, but since they were going to be apart anyway... At 45k I would replace the bushings, definitely. I don't have any advice on doing the job. I had a bunch of trade with my dealer and had him do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyv65 Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 ... When I redid my fork valving I bought the seals because the manual said I'd need them...but I was careful removing the downtubes and wound up returning the seals and saving myself 50 someodd bucks. take your time and you'll have no problems . Bryan...money better spent on beer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie_xx Posted July 25, 2003 Author Share Posted July 25, 2003 Thanks guys I have had the seals for a while now and today I decided to order all the other "disposable" stuff - washers, bushings and even o-rings :roll: Maybe overkill, but WTF... we live once :wink: Seriously though, I didn't want to be stuck over the weekend, because some small piece was bad . (With my luck that would happen !) Oh well.... Now I have to read the manual onece more :idea: Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie_xx Posted July 26, 2003 Author Share Posted July 26, 2003 I watched the video supplied with the RT kit, and now I'm a little bit affraid the job may be to much for my skills ..... It doesn't mention the rebound kit at all :sad: .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
severdog Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 How much did you spend for the whole kit? I am looking at a similar job in the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie_xx Posted July 28, 2003 Author Share Posted July 28, 2003 $320 ..... :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBXX Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 I watched the video after i put the kit in. I found the video confusing. My one bit of advice is measure every shim, dont make any assumptions, and two do it with the forks on. You just have to get the cartridges out. You don't have to remove the sliders from the tubes, You dont have to mess with the seals unless you want to. All you need is the copper washer that holds in the oil in the fork leg bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie_xx Posted August 13, 2003 Author Share Posted August 13, 2003 Okay, I did the job ! Thanks to HerbXX and FlyV65 it went easier :cool: Thanks guys ! But here is my question.... Am I the only one not happy with the results?! Maybe I screwd up :oops: but I don't think so.... I didn't achive so impressive performance ! Did everything according to Race Tech. The bike seems to go a bit better over irregularieties of the pavement on the highways, going 60-80 MPH, but that's about it ! The bike doesn't feel to secure on ramps (only curves here in Chicago !) and surface streets ! I feel that I have less imput coming from the front tire ! When I lift the front wheel of the ground, all seems solid, but few times on bumps and such , I swear it seemed the forks dropped ! I'm certain I assambled all correct ! I also hear a click, somewhere on the lower part of the fork, when I pump it (when I stand next to it !) BTW, the bushings were in a perfect shape - 45K milles !!! But since I had new ones I replaced them anyway.... Another thing I notticed is that my hands fell a sleep couple of times, which didn't happen before ! Is it possible there are different vibrations coming from the front wheel now ? Unless I sort this out I feel I waisted $300 ! I wish I did the oil first, then maybe the springs, and valves last (I have both sets !) I'm jalous how some of you are happy with the results..... Later, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Did everything according to Race Tech. Unfortunately, that's wrong. Just recently discovered that while working on mine. For one, drilling the rebound bleed hole is wrong. And you have to build the shim stack to its absolute maximum. I'm trying to get all the details from my shop now that I've ridden the bike and know it is just right. BTW, you did both kits right? Damping and rebound? Dealing with RT is almost like dealing with Corbin... :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaBird Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 Did everything according to Race Tech. Unfortunately, that's wrong. Just recently discovered that while working on mine. For one, drilling the rebound bleed hole is wrong. And you have to build the shim stack to its absolute maximum. I'm trying to get all the details from my shop now that I've ridden the bike and know it is just right. BTW, you did both kits right? Damping and rebound? Dealing with RT is almost like dealing with Corbin... :roll: Why $430 bones is so well spent having a pro, like Dan Kyle do them, and have them Bitchin out of the box---ask SDMarc how he likes his new forks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD Marc Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 :worship: :cheers: :bike: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaBird Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 :worship: :cheers: :bike: heheheheh---I thought you were being a tad shy :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie_xx Posted August 14, 2003 Author Share Posted August 14, 2003 Except I use the bike every day - my only transportation at the moment, so I couldn't afford to ship the fork and wait about two weeks. Didn't want to wait till winter either. I learned about DK after I had all the parts too. Also I wasn't the first who did that at home..... Why are the holes drilled wrong ?! And I hope I did both valve kits right :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted August 14, 2003 Share Posted August 14, 2003 Drilling the holes at all is wrong. They allowed to much flow, so there was effectively no damping. That's what causes the "not sure" feeling in corners. I had that at first too, now it's fixed. RT said they were going to add an insert to the XX kit packages based on my shop's findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie_xx Posted August 14, 2003 Author Share Posted August 14, 2003 IS RT giving you new rebound valves ?! How was your problem fixed? Are the compresion valves not suppose to be drilled either ?! Strange that nobody else complained about that !? :shock: :roll: Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBXX Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 I think I have enough rebound damping using the race tech settings. To me that hole is so tiny compared to the area of the valve i have a hard time believing it really makes that much difference ??? What rebound stack are you using Carlos ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyv65 Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 Yeah, I'm curious about this, too. I rebuilt my forks this past Christmas (did the springs about 3 months before), and was very pleased with the results. I drilled the 1.0 mm hole for the rebound and compression valves instead of the 1.3 mm...but I wonder if the fact that I "stress" the suspension more than some people is the reason that I've had acceptable results. Carlos, what did your shop do to the forks differently? Bryan...might have a new project for Christmas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBXX Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I drilled the 1.3 , the front end is complient but doesn' bounce off the road or anything. I was scared of the front end packing down as i weight about 265 lbs . It shoiuld be possipble to solder up the hole anyway if one wants to play with suck thing. I beleive the hole only effects low speed damping and at high speed, (fast fork movement) the fluid will bind up in the small the holes almost like it not there . Thats my understanding anyway, but i would like to hear what everyone else thinks . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Here's the whole sequence of events... They did the compression kit only first. Mistake. The compression was just fine but the rebound was loose and sloppy, way too fast, at least for me. When I'd get off the brakes in a corner it would bounce back and "Harley out" too much, going wide. They then did the rebound kit, but in their own testing, found it was still too fast. So they spent the day going back and tuning. I don't know exactly what they ended up with, he did say that they put all the shims on that they could possibly fit given the space, and it was still not enough. So they closed up the hole, and it was good. I haven't had the opportunity to really flog the bike since, but it's obviously more controlled just riding around normally. No more of the bounce and I get off the brake and onto the gas. This has been my shop for 12 years, two guys run it and wrench themselves, they run a racing team, and tune for racers from all over the region. Not exactly their first suspension job (only Ohlins-capable shop here too). I'm guessing that if they'd left it with the hole, I'd probably still be happy with it even if it wasn't as good. But that's just not their style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G2 Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I've been playing around with the XX forks for awhile and thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. Possibly what he Race-Tech kit isn't taking into account on '99 and later XX's is that there is a bypass orifice already drilled in the assembly, not the valve itself. The '97 I worked on is different and has the orifice in both the comp. & rebound valve bodies. On that year, an allen bolt holds the comp. valve/shims/check washer&spring together and there's a threaded solid shaft on the damper rod for the rebound assy. But.....on the '00 & '01 models (I'm assuming the '99 is the same) I worked on, the mounting shafts for both assemblies is hollow (2mm) with an approx. 1mm crossed drilled orifice in the hex which bypasses the shim stack. Now that little stock, right angle orifice doesn't flow much oil and with the added stiction problem it makes for one uncompliant fork! But when you drill your Race-Tech valves out to 1-1.3mm I'm guessing they didn't take into account that your adding to a 1mm orifice that is part of the assembly, not drilled in the stock valve your replacing. In the '97 the compression valve had about a 1.17mm hole and the rebound was approx. 1.25mm. This arrangement made the very audible "whooshing" sound that has been reported by others when switching to 5wt. oil. 2000 and later models with 5wt. made little noise difference. I've been trying to come up with a low cost solution for those who want the biggest improvement in the forks for the least amount of money. I'm very close with just one more thing I want to try before I give out my suggestions. This is really only for the guy who likes to take things apart and gets satisfaction from doing his own wrenching. Dan Kyle and Traxxion Dynamics gave me pointers and tips which helped me tremendously but I still made some mistakes (prior to their advice) which cost me time and money. Using the Race-Tech method for measuring sag which takes into account your suspension stiction, shoot for 34-35mm when adjusting the preload for your new fork springs. That seems to be the magic number for the three bikes I've done so far. Yeah, only 3 but all were XX's with 1.0kg springs. DK suggests 1.05kg springs because of the bikes weight. Getting ready to do a fourth XX ('99) with a 270lb rider and he purchased the 1.05kg springs. More to come. G2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 Wow, great info! Here's an e-mail from my shop: Carlos, The right way to install the Racetech kits on the CBR1100XX, is to use BOTH rebound and compression kits. Specifically, on the rebound valve kit, DO NOT drill the hole in the rebound valve. If the hole has already been drilled, simply plug it with your favorite JB Weld or other high quality epoxy. One more note....we like either the Racetech US1 fork oil, or Kayaba enzo-1 fork oil for these forks. Hope that helps Carlos! Sincerely, Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie_xx Posted August 26, 2003 Author Share Posted August 26, 2003 Well, I'm still not happy with my fork . I called the RT and was told that I have to start with the proper sag. So I checked and have 35mm front and 30mm rear. They suppose to be the same right? So to get to the 30mm up front, do I cut the spacer or add some? Sorry for the silly question, but the RT guy is not there.... If I have to add some spacer, will it make the front even higher than it is now? My first impression after the mod was that the bike sits higher up-front now.....I start to feel that maybe the 1.0 springs are to stiff too. I'll try to put the stock ones back to see the difference... I wish I had better results... :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 You would add more preload, just a few mm. If you can find some large washers that would be the easy way. It will raise the front, by 5mm, if you go to 30mm sag. You might want to shim up the rear to balance that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G2 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Peter, How did you measure your sag? See my post in Setting your suspension sag. 35mm should be close. The 1.0 springs are not too stiff, a 1.05kg set might even have been better for your weight. Did you read my earlier speculation on why the Race-Tech hole recommendation might be in error? Here's why: Note the orifice on both the compression and rebound assemblies. The rebound orifice on this damper rod is approx. 1.25mm verses the 1mm on the comp. assy. so now you have two holes after drilling the valves that are bypassing the valve/shimstack. Your lack of rebound (providing everything else is assembled correctly) probably has the front end feeling vague, busy or gives you a floating feeling when on or off the gas in corners?!? Help me out here. Note the 2mm hollow shaft that the orifice is cross drilled into. I just like that pic :wink: My suggestion is to order a couple of new copper washers and disassemble the forks again. Fill those holes in the rebound valves like Carlos' guys suggested and put it back together. Do only that one thing! I could quiz you on a hundred things but I'm going to assume everything else is assembled right. Please don't be insulted, I have no way of knowing anything about what you have there but am trying to help anyway. :???: Now that you've attempted to do your own fork work on this machine, your committed to take it apart numerous times to get it right or say fuck it and send the forks to DK. I'm doing the same thing but it's still fun for me (at this time) and I'm trying to share my mistakes and what I've learned with others. You must know that getting the most out of these forks will still be a compromise. Finding the right balance of straight line plushness and rock solid stability in that bumpy high speed corner is the elusive goal of any tuner and this is your first set. It is, after all, still a sportbike. Hope I helped in some way. When I find the set-up I think is best....I'll let everyone know. Still in work. G2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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