rgillies Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 I put a K&N filter in my stock 02 bird for a couple of months. Immediately I noticed bad gas mileage and was getting about 220km per tank (about 35 mpg). As well the end of my pipes had black carbon deposits on the end and the inside of the pipes. I put the regular oem honda filter back in and I am back to normal, 270 km per tank (45 mpg) and my pipes are perfectly clean. My theory is that with the increased amount of air the computer also adds more fuel and creates a rich mixture. Maybe someone else has had or noticed this problem as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demon Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 You should actually be running leaner. Does your bike have an o2 sensor on it? You might have over oiled it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgillies Posted June 2, 2005 Author Share Posted June 2, 2005 I think it has an 02 sensor. It came pre-oiled so I just put it in. It did not seem like there would have been too much oil. If the 02 sensor is the white plug looking thing in the air box, it was perfectly white and clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demon Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 The o2 sensor is in the exhaust. It measures the air/fuel ratio and is found on Cali and Euro bikes. All the K&N's I've ever used I wash and oil myself before I put them in. The one I got for my GSXR was way over oiled from K&N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgillies Posted June 2, 2005 Author Share Posted June 2, 2005 it is not a california or Euro bike, so I guess it does not have an o2 sensor. Thanks for the suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 :shock: :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 About the O2 sensor... on most bikes (the VFR800FI I know...), the computer only goes closed loop at steady state cruise, like on the highway... wouldn't help anywhere else... I do know that when you take the baffles out of a 'busa, it runs pretty rich... Seen that a few times... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REXX Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 I too believe my mileage has suffered with the addition of the K&N filter. I didn't clean and reoil it but I did blot any excess oil with a paper towel. I may clean and reoil ahead of schedule to see if it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgo63 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 All above is the reason why I use oem filter as replacement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXblitzkrieg Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 I've noiticed the same problem with my bike. My K&N was put in new and has been in fo r6 months 2500miles. I just filled up my bike this morning and got 20.3 MPG from this tank of fuel just driving around town. My oil has beeen smelling gassy also Brett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdsw60 Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 I have an Erion exhaust system. On their web site they recommed NOT using a K & N filter. They said they got better preformance with a stock Honda filter. Good enough for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 no body has brought up the fact there is a map sensor which sees higher relitave pressure with a free flowing filter,,,,and richens!!!!!!! and at idle it is really rich and will foul the plugs. my wide band recorder shows this and i have to take a lot out to get near to 14 to 1 below 3000 rpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REXX Posted June 7, 2005 Share Posted June 7, 2005 pdsw60, how is your fuel mileage with Erions...did it change when you put them on? I thought my performance dropped off, fuel mileage for damn sure, I kept telling myself "surely K&N wouldn't sell a filter that can't even out-perform stock"...lying motherfuckers! :evil: XXblitzkrieg won't be the only one ditching that POS K&N! Hell, the fucker didn't even fit worth a damn...hopefully I didn't screw up my O-ring seal pulling it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flipy351 Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 K&N filters are designed to let air flow easier into the motor therfore more air the engine should run leaner as is the case in a carbed engine. However a fuel injected model has a damned dumb computer which only does what it is told. That is x volume of air needs y amount of fuel at a given throttle opening at certain revs. Now with the kn air filter its getting more air therfore it overcompensatates and gives more fuel. Thus your black tail pipes and crappy fuel consumption. Unfortunately to rectify this problem youl have to have your computer recalibrated by someone who can work tricks with it. Failing that leave it standard is the rule for fuel injection. As you are aware there are a lot of sensors all designed to compensate for any changes from normal which they do only to well when sensors get the wrong info ie. to much air. The same applies to mufflers and back pressure on FI vehicles. Sorry for the bad news guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flipy351 Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 Hey just found this gizmo. You might want to take a look at this site about micro fuel injection boxes apparently can help you recalibrate that dumb computer. Reads ok http://www.tireexpress.com/moreinfo.cfm?Pr...Product_ID=9249 At least it gives ya an option to use that air filter and increase your milage. Hope it helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REXX Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 Makes sense flipy351...just wish I had thought of that before blowing $45 to make my bike run worse and lose 10 mpg! I think I'll go the $30 "put a stock filter back in" route instead of the "$300 Power Commander" route. Maybe K&N should put a disclaimer on their "POWER GAINS!!!!!" statement saying "must purchase $300 Power Commander and have $200 dyno session to realize the 2 HP increase". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverbird1100 Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 I was using just a PCII and it was too rich with my map, but a new K&N has in running cleaner and better than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 change the map!!!!!!!! not that hard i will help mp chart 0 ,2 ,5 throtle position 0 to 2500 rpm put -30 in for the numbers reset the idle rpm back cause will clean out over and out stan ps yes you need a powercommander for any changes from stock...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg4fku Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 I don't know what you guys are complaining about. On my 99 before the K&N the stock pipe tips were always black in about 500 miles. Mileage was usually between 38 and 40. Now I have the K&N in the bike with the stock pipes. Tips are always shiney and my best mileage to date was 43 MPG. That was logged on the super slab with loaded Corbin bags and two up. My plugs fire cleaner WITH the K&N. The bike runs a little warmer around town but that is to be expected when the bike is running on the lean side. My only guess is that they changed the ECU after the 99's to control more of the fuel mixture. I like the filter and I don't plan on going back. Of course, your mileage may vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 I have an Erion exhaust system. On their web site they recommed NOT using a K & N filter. They said they got better preformance with a stock Honda filter. Good enough for me! Well, I searched Erion's web site and couldn't find it, so I e-mailed this question today-"Do you recommend using a K&N air filter with your exhaust on a 97 Honda Blackbird?" This was the response-"Yes, K&N would work fine on your bike." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Nobody's saying anything bad about the K&N on a carb'd bike... the FI bikes are (may be) the problem... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partmonster Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 I had a K&N on the full race Micron System and the bike ran rich as hell because the stock map on the FI computer saw more air in the box and compensated with more fuel. I rode like this for over a year and gas mileage did suffer as well as smelling like a rode through a gas shower after riding. I put in the PC3 USB this summer and WOW what a difference. Gas mileage is back, carbon build up is cleaning up, and power feels AWESOME. Louie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg4fku Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 my 99 is fuel injected........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superblkbrdxx Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 my bro & i have k&n no prob with gas mi.??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helvet Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I don't know what you guys are complaining about. On my 99 before the K&N the stock pipe tips were always black in about 500 miles. Mileage was usually between 38 and 40. Now I have the K&N in the bike with the stock pipes. Tips are always shiney and my best mileage to date was 43 MPG. That was logged on the super slab with loaded Corbin bags and two up. My plugs fire cleaner WITH the K&N. The bike runs a little warmer around town but that is to be expected when the bike is running on the lean side. My only guess is that they changed the ECU after the 99's to control more of the fuel mixture. I like the filter and I don't plan on going back. Of course, your mileage may vary. Same here on a 1999 bike...... I changed the bike and did a 3 seperate Dyno runs.... First run, totally standard (138bhp on rear wheel). Black exhausts. Second, K&N filter and Superpole slip-ons. Same fuel consumption, but bike becomes very lean on low revs. Driveability was less, accelleration was much better (144.3 bhp on rear wheel). Still black exhausts. Third, PC2 added and made a new mapping for it. Fuel consumption about 20% better, driveability much better, but the bike feels slower (154.4 bhp on rear wheel!). Last week I did 310 km with 19 liters including a passenger, 3 Givi cases and a tankbag..... Before I did about 260km..... I notice a much better fuel consumption on the highway (at 160km/h or 100 mph), and even better with a slow ride (my wife being the speed-limiter...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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