Northman Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Anybody use a non-resistor plug in the XX? Dean, what are you using? The plugs that were put in mine are awesome little units, but a decent price is $52/each. I can't afford to spend $200 on a set of plugs 2-3 times a year, so... The exact same plug, in a non-resistor version, is 1/3 the price. Those I can afford :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Dean, what are you using? The plugs that were put in mine are awesome little units, but a decent price is $52/each. :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 http://www.sparkplugs.com/results_cross.as...p?pid=r0045q-10 :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 http://www.sparkplugs.com/results_cross.as...p?pid=r0045q-10:cool: First run on the fresh engine made 178hp and 104 lb/ft of torque, with a lot of mapping left to be done, and the tire slipping on the dyno. Making 80 lb/ft of torque as low as 4500rpm, and carrying it throughout the rest of the rpm range.  The "power band" is now gone, just a linear pull from 4K up.  With race fuel & mapping, we'll see what happens, but won't dyno again for another month, giving it time to break in a bit.  Rode it for the first time on Wednesday, and it's surprisingly tame, but extremely torquey, allowing me to clutch off with no throttle, and opening the throttle in 6th @ 60 extends the forks  Had a problem with the balance shaft, which I re-timed last night, so gave it a full throttle run this am, pulling to 180mph with ease, and still pulling hard.  Can't wait to really open it up So, what's the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARREN Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Hey Team..... I dont know if you seen my other post regarding buying a NAPA store...but I have a great line on NGK, and with the exchange rate working in you favour, may be worth me priceing you out plugs. besides I would package them as a gift so you dont pay duty. :twisted: Regards Warren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 Thanks for the info, Dean. :grin: I'll send NGK an email, and ask their opinion. The other option I was going to go with is the Denso iridiums. My engine guy didn't recommend the non-resistor type, either, but said the bike may tolerate it. I didn't want to spend $70 on the non-resistor type just to find out I can't use them, so was hoping somebody had more input. J Red - never enough power :twisted: Actually, I'm looking for the cleanest burn I can, obviously, and was going to go one heat range colder. Just trying to excercise my options. Those R0045Q-10 plugs are straight out of the HRC AMA Superbike program. Guess that's why they're so freakin' expensive :cry: Warren: I'm in Canada, so hook a brother up? I'm guessing your wholesale price would still be $70 Cdn, if you can source them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 Oh, and I now have 1500 miles on the motor, so we're ready for another dyno run, which is scheduled for next weekend. I'll be putting fresh plugs in for that run, anyway. 180? What a pussy I was back then..... Had it up to 190 this afternoon but ran out of road again :sad: For you people that want to question that accuracy, the speed is indicated, with a 18T front sprocket, and no calibration. According to my math, it's very accurate with the bigger tire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARREN Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 get your part number and give me a shout 519-326-9011 p.s. I give all bikers and gear heads the deepest discounts, on ALL parts and I can ship puro, ups, cardinal, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 I thought the resistors are there in plugs for RFI. Radio freq. interference. Some FCC thing. Since you don't have a radio, and don't care if you cause interference at a light with the SUV next to you, run the ones without resistors. Do you know about the resistors IN the plug caps??? One of my first mods on my Hondas is to cut a piece of rod the same length as the resistors and replace them. If I remember they are 5K ohms. got to take some ignition energy away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 The non-resistor plugs will make a lot of radio "noise", that can upset the signals from the cam sensor, crank sensor, etc. Just wondered if anyone had first hand knowledge of whether or not the XX tolerated it. According to my engine guy, some will, and some won't. He says there is no advantage of non-resistor plugs over resistor, other than cost. Warren: See above post. NGK R0045Q-10 - resistor plug NGK R0045J-10 - non resistor What type of parts store did you buy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman_40 Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Watch out on removing the resistors... may cause too much power might do damage to the plugs... but worth checking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 Could it possibly overload the coils, pulling too much amperage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Exactly why I did it. I've done it to my XR 650 also. Can't be any problems, It's been 45K miles since I've done it on the XX alone. Bike ignitions have a LONG way to go compared to automotive ignitions. Our bikes are lucky to pull 40K volts. Cars pull 80K volts routinely. Hence the .060 gap. I just measured one of those resistors. Got 4.93K ohms. I forget the Ohms law formula also. :roll: With a loss of 5000 ohms, ignition voltage must be higher jumping the plugs. EDIT: whoops, with the 2 coil system we have, 2 cylinders are paired, so actually I've removed 10K ohms from the circuit. :grin: Only 5 from my XR650L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted October 24, 2004 Author Share Posted October 24, 2004 You'll need to know the other variables of the equation to calculate voltage loss, but anyway... When you removed your resistors, Pete, what did you use to replace them with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Had some steel rod of the correct diameter, and just cut 4 pieces of the correct length. Unscrew the brass screw in the plug cap, remove the resistor and replace with the piece of rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demon Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 bout how big in Dia. is the rod that you used? Want to get the right stuff before tearing into her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 .185 in diameter and .710 long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demon Posted October 24, 2004 Share Posted October 24, 2004 Thanks, anything for more power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Oh well, I've done it already, and it works, I'm not going to undo it. How did you come up with a resistance figure for a plug gap? Ours is .35 BTW which would make it even worse. I would want to take it from the other end, 30K volts at the coil. That's where I stop though, don't know the rest. :roll: BTW I can feel my extra .16875 HP. :razz: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Don't stop! I'm learning here! So.... what's that all mean, in terms of sparks voltage and amperage accross a given gap of say .035. And since you doing such a good job, what's so great about iridium plugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 I can do the iridium plugs. It's all about keeping the electrodes sharp. When they're sharp it takes less voltage till they fire. Everytime a plug fires microscopic metal particles goes with it and the electrodes eventually round off. Iridium, which is harder and replacing platinum, is a very hard metal, very little metal will erode away. This gives you longer mileage plugs. If you don't mind changeing your plugs once or twice a year get the cheap ones. I'm not even going to look at these till 24K miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Well now that you got me started... and I went looking... I found these cool looking things... (Copied from another sight) After testing every plug I could get my hands on I thought I had pretty much concluded my spark plug testing when I was approached by the Prenco Development Coordinator Garrett Simpson regarding a new line of plugs. BRISK spark plugs are made in the Czech Republic and as you can see the version suggested to me has the same halo spark pattern as the Torque Master plugs previously. These factors instantly raised my suspicions regarding this brand's quality however after some research I quickly found that these plugs aren't your home brewed plug. BRISK has been around since the 1930s and is ISO 9001, QS-9000, ISO 14001 and VDA 6.1 certified. Basically this company is the real deal and then some. I recommend taking a look at their website as the technical information is very interesting and informative. After accepting the task of testing these plugs I was sent 4 LOR10LGS plugs free of charge. I was at first a little concerned that the center electrode protruded about 1.5 millimeters more than a standard NGK plug. I decided to test fit them in a open rotor housing. The clearance is fine however a standard NGK plug has a larger section between the threads and hex. This allows the hex to protrude beyond the rotor housing for install whereas the BRISK plug's hex enters the plug hole. This is fine however the socket wrench would need to be extremely thin walled or ground down. I have learned that such custom sockets are available via members on the rx7forum and MazdaTrix but I didn't know about these options at the time and a plug shouldn't require special tools to install so I informed Garrett of the results. He was undaunted and suggested a DOR10LGS plug with a smaller 5/8" hex. (See picture to the right.) Garrett was gracious enough to send a second set of free plugs to test. These are currently in my car and if testing goes well I plan on dyno testing them. The heat range index used by BRISK is not equivalent to what is commonly used by the other brands listed here but through talking with Garrett and looking at the various sites I have come up with the following chart. Garrett and I decided on a rather cold plug so I hope fouling is not a problem. Plug Heat Range DOR14LGS 7.5 DOR12LGS 8.5 DOR10LGS 9.5 DOR08LGS 10.5 The LGS line of BRISK plugs are their premium line of plugs and, much like Torque Master plugs, several dyno graphs showing power increases in piston engines can easily be found. Interestingly these plugs have a silver center electrode instead of copper, platinum or iridium, which are commonly used. The design seen above is also being updated in that the electrode ring is divided in to 4 sections more like a NGK plug instead of having 4 small holes drilled in to it. The new design can be seen by clicking here. If you are interested in trying a set of these plugs I only know of one place that sells them (in English), http://plugs.janmax.com/ They are reasonably priced at $10 each. If you try a set please let me know your results. They also have several other lines of plugs that have applications in a wide variety of vehicles. Also of interest is the BRISK Tábor web site. It has additional information similar to the newer USA BRISK site linked at the top. So far I only have about 1250 miles on these plugs but this includes a rigorous two day track event at VIR. So far they have performed very well. My MPG has dropped slightly but I installed a high flow cat at the same time so I can't be sure that these plugs caused any performance change. I'll know more when I test another brand later. I do plan on running these plugs for my normal 6000 miles but removed one after VIR to inspect it. As you can see by the picture the plug is noticeably used. The little "teeth" on the ground electrode ring are wearing down and the tip has a bit of carbon buildup. I haven't noticed a bad idle or poor performance though so I feel that the plugs are still doing just fine. It will be interesting to see how they hold up over 6K miles. Very interesting... stuff out there... and this may turn out to be a good link to know... http://plugs.janmax.com/ and this one... http://www.sparkplugs.com/ Now what plugs do our bikes use again..... :oops: or if you want to read the rest of the story, here is the link... it about some guy and his RX-7... http://www.silverbulletrx7.com/plugs/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted October 31, 2004 Author Share Posted October 31, 2004 Neat design, but already used at 1500 miles? I sent an email to NGK, asking for their opinion on which plugs to use in my engine. I'll post here what they recommend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted November 1, 2004 Author Share Posted November 1, 2004 Wow, did I ever get a lesson on spark plugs today. NGK tech rep called me at work to answer questions. His recommendation is to leave the resistor in the cap (also informed that all modern bikes are running them), and go with a non-resistor plug for my application. Reason being is the 10K resistance is overkill, and will result in a delayed spark. According to him, it will allow running leaner mixtures. The resistor in the plug also inhibits heat transfer away from the combustion chamber, so eliminate that resistor, instead of the one in the cap. For each 50hp increase, they recommend one heat range cooler. With my power output and compression ratio, he recommended going with a heat range 11 plug. R0045J-11 for racing purposes, dyno testing, etc. Nothing is better than a surface gap plug, in his opinion. For longer use, he recommended R016-11 which is a different design but will last longer. Also said to stay away from octane boost if at all possible, and fuels containing ethynol (leans the mixtures). I spent half an hour on the phone with the guy, from work. :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 What was the reason to leave the cap resistor in??? From what you're saying, with no resistors it's like buying an ignition advancer. Too bad I didn't buy the non-resistor iridium plugs. :cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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