Motorcycle oil thread, because it's been too long.

[86gn]

I can hear the Harley riders bragging that their bikes use diesel oil😂. Maybe they roll coal to.

[superhawk996]

Reading your replies helped me figure out why diesel oil is actually appropriate for them, they're monstrous engines with no horsepower.

 

For an 800 pound couch it pulls decently, but it is a 1450cc engine.  I've come around to liking some aspects of it.  Being able to throw lunch/parts in the luggage makes it usable for quick errands.  I like playing with the radio and cruise control.  I've always hated the springiness of the forks, it was a friend's bike so I've ridden it a couple times over the last many years.  After changing the fork oil they're pretty damn decent.

[fizzy]

1 hour ago, superhawk996 said:

.  After changing the fork oil they're pretty damn decent.

Oil, did you say oil, and what about the air gap?  😎

[superhawk996]

6 minutes ago, fizzy said:

Oil, did you say oil, and what about the air gap?  😎

No clue what the air gap is, I filled them from the bottom to approximately the factory spec...I think.  Spec is 9.7 ounces, but it doesn't say if that's each or total.  From forums and videos everyone says it's per side, what came out was about 9-10oz total for both.  There's no sign of leakage and they still had some air pressure after being parked forever so my guess is that the last guy did 9.7oz. total.

 

They call for 10w which I didn't have so I mixed some 5 and 20 blindly aiming for somewhere around 12.  And yes, I know the number on the bottles mean nearly nothing.  The left fork supposedly has to be filled from the bottom which seems harder, but in this case it's easier to fill them both from the bottom.  I guesstimated spillage and added a little extra to compensate.  I forgot to put the schrader back in before pulling the filler hose from the right side so it's probably a little low, but nowhere near how low it was.  With the schrader in it creates an air lock so less spills out when pulling the hose to insert the screw.  Smart me would have prepared better and pulled a vacuum to not spill any.

[SwampNut]

15 hours ago, 86gn said:

Maybe they roll coal to.

 

I know they are leaky, but do they also burn oil?

 

[tomek]

On 2/16/2023 at 8:45 AM, superhawk996 said:

So you're going to further prove what I said about Diesel engine oil running cool after stupidly arguing that they run "hot as fuck" just like a Harley...perfect.  While you're waiting for those unnecessary photo opportunities, look up Harley specs on piston to cylinder clearance so you can see how wrong you were about that "generous piston to cylinder clearance" statement as well.

Yep, Air-cooled big bore engines run tight clearances. Tighter vs. water-cooled smaller bore engines. You are an idiot.

 

Second, even 5 years old knows oil temperature on EGR diesel engines, turbocharged of course, is high. Higher then before in era on no EGR and VGT turbos. 

Hint- for egr to work back pressure on hot side has to be higher vs. post intercooler intake part. Otherwise it would flow wrong way. On the top of that compared to pre emission diesels they now have to run higher boost levels to make equal power. The excess air cuts down on soot, etc.

Point is heat loads on turbo and exhaust manifold are now much higher vs. before. Turbos are cooled by oil, etc,,,

Just do basic internet search, everyone complains about high oil temp on modern diesels 

 

Anyway, your OP post was not that horrible because you simply were not aware of "uniqueness" of HD engine.

 

And then you doubled down. 😂

[fizzy]

1 hour ago, superhawk996 said:

No clue what the air gap is, I filled them from the bottom to approximately the factory spec...I think.  Spec is 9.7 ounces, but it doesn't say if that's each or total.  From forums and videos everyone says it's per side, what came out was about 9-10oz total for both.  There's no sign of leakage and they still had some air pressure after being parked forever so my guess is that the last guy did 9.7oz. total.

 

They call for 10w which I didn't have so I mixed some 5 and 20 blindly aiming for somewhere around 12.  And yes, I know the number on the bottles mean nearly nothing.  The left fork supposedly has to be filled from the bottom which seems harder, but in this case it's easier to fill them both from the bottom.  I guesstimated spillage and added a little extra to compensate.  I forgot to put the schrader back in before pulling the filler hose from the right side so it's probably a little low, but nowhere near how low it was.  With the schrader in it creates an air lock so less spills out when pulling the hose to insert the screw.  Smart me would have prepared better and pulled a vacuum to not spill any.

Please see my post, there is a smiley guys at the end. This subject has the potential to go where original subject is already going 🍺

[superhawk996]

3 hours ago, SwampNut said:

 

I know they are leaky, but do they also burn oil?

 

This one has no leaks and no smoking.  Shit, it might be empty.  I've seen a few 'tuned' Harleys roll coal; more fuel mo powa!

 

I saw a Prius roll coal the other day, it made me chuckle.

[superhawk996]

2 hours ago, fizzy said:

Please see my post, there is a smiley guys at the end. This subject has the potential to go where original subject is already going 🍺

I know, but most of that was stuff I'd considered posting anyway so your question became my excuse.  Besides, it gives The Professional an opportunity to tell me how stupid I am for mixing fork oil willy-nilly.

[SwampNut]

25 minutes ago, superhawk996 said:

saw a Prius roll coal the other day, it made me chuckle.

 

Oil consumption, or HV battery going up?

 

[superhawk996]

3 minutes ago, SwampNut said:

 

Oil consumption, or HV battery going up?

 

Black smoke upon take-off, something's making it run super rich.  I was only behind it briefly so I don't know if it continued while cruising.

 

Gen 2s seem to have a somewhat common oil consumption problem, but not to the point of visible smoke.  Mine did after doing the first oil change with cheap dino oil, I don't remember how much it was eating, but it was a lot more than one could consider normal.  Then I switched to synthetic and it pretty much stopped, it used about a quart every 5k miles.

[The Krypt Keeper]

This reminds me of a story, co-worker who passed away while riding his bike (heart attack, then through a ditch and fence) finally got him a harley. Had to have harley oil, I asked him if harley actually owned their own oil or a label maker? 

 

He asked what I used and told him Rotella T6 5w-40, he couldn't believe it like many others. 

 

street bikes, track bikes and dirtbikes, many hard miles and lots of data to back it up. So he bought the harley oil to make sure it wouldn't hurt his engine. oh well...

[superhawk996]

I started using 15-40 conventional diesel oils in lots of vehicles back in the 90's, partly because I could usually get it for free.  When I discovered 5-40 I started using that in some where it was more appropriate.  I put 15-40 in my Harley Softail's primary case and the clutch action became shitty, hitting neutral at a standstill was nearly impossible and shifting was clunky because it didn't release well enough.  I had a similar experience with the Bird, but not quite as bad, and part of that was likely due to the aftermarket cable clutch actuator not working quite right at the time.

 

The only time I've used an expensive 'specialty' oil was the last oil change in the Bird.  I used Motul 300V and holy shit, the shifting improvement was so amazing I may stick with it.  Plus it picked up 3.359 HP according to my well calibrated butt dyno.

[blackhawkxx]

11 hours ago, superhawk996 said:

Plus it picked up 3.359 HP

There was no way it added more than 3.125 HP, 3.359 you are dreaming.                                                     😁

[superhawk996]

The atmospheric pressure was up that day.  Or maybe the humidity was down?  There might have been a tail wind.

 

Ok, truth is, I dropped a huge poop that morning and forgot to recalibrate the dyno.  You got me.

[XXitanium]

On 2/15/2023 at 8:15 PM, XXitanium said:

4 quarts of Klots was $62 a couple weeks ago. ...old stock. New inventory coning in will be over $80 per gallon.

 

[blackhawkxx]

9 hours ago, XXitanium said:

 

Good thing you don't live around here Bill as you would have got more use out of your bike than a snow machine.  It was 75F last Wednesday. 

The warmest winter I can remember but still a high heating bill. 😠

[XXitanium]

We're supposed to get between 15 and 22 inches in the next few days up here. I'm hoping the creeks are still frozen over enough to go.

[XXitanium]

[jon haney]

On 2/18/2023 at 10:33 PM, superhawk996 said:

The atmospheric pressure was up that day.  Or maybe the humidity was down?  There might have been a tail wind.

 

Ok, truth is, I dropped a huge poop that morning and forgot to recalibrate the dyno.  You got me.

Forgetting to re-calibrate leaves skid marks, no?

[Northern Fox]

On 2/15/2023 at 4:54 PM, tomek said:

Actually, diesel oil is accidentally good lubricant for motorcycle powerplants. I thought everyone knew that.

Something like Shell Rotella 5w/40 had or still has JASO MA specification, so it is even for motorcycles with wet clutch, transmission as well.

Except it is irrelevant in this case because traditionally HDs had separate lubrication systems for engine, transmission and primary. There might be powerplants like that from other makers, but vast majority has just one lubrication system, not three, and that dictates oil specifications.

  So, HD engine oil has evidently not much to do with traditional "motorcycle oil" because requirements are vastly different. HDs have, at least, air cooled cylinders with big bores with necessary generous piston to cylinder clearance becouse that tend to run hot like fuck.

Diesel engines of semi truck have huge 130-160 mm bores, and under full power for 30 minutes or better climbing Independence Pass do run hot as fuck as well. It requires generous piston to cylinder clearance as well. Hence oil specifications.

 

So, diesel oil is better match, and on the top, is widely available. Walmart, truck stops, etc will have it. 24/7. Motorcycle dealers? Not so much. 

 

I don't see anything surprising 8n what they suggest.

 

And you? You'll never admit you were wrong, so couple pages of Latino Bull Shit is coming next.🤪

 

On 2/15/2023 at 6:14 AM, superhawk996 said:

I found this interesting.  My Harley manual states to only use Harley oil, of course.  The surprising part is that it says if you need oil and can't find Harley oil you can use Diesel engine oil to get by on.  Then, obviously, you need to change it as soon as possible so that it'll be back to pure Harley oil.

 

I was shocked that it suggests diesel oil instead of motorcycle oil.  Why would Harley state diesel oil, could it be better than motorcycle spec oils?  Then it hit me.  I wonder if Harley only suggests the diesel oil alternative to avoid having you think about using some other brand of motorcycle oil instead of theirs.  Like they're trying to convince you that those other oils are SO fuckin shitty that they're not even good enough to get you by in an emergency, but the diesel stuff that doesn't really belong in there is at least ok enough keep it alive till you can find Harley oil.

Not going to comment on the use of diesel as it seems to be covered but just a note on Harley oil. Basically, it’s crap based on independent comparison with many other brands. At our largest Harley dealer in this area, they of course carry HD oil but no one buys it. Reason is, they also carry Amsoil which has proven over and over through independent lab testing as well as real live riding to come out on top every time so that’s what bikers want. In fact Amsoil worked with HD to develop the 20-50 for the big V twin market. And no, I’m not connected to Amsoil but a long time user.

[tomek]

Thanks for reminder. I forgot about this thread.

As promised pictures of coolant and oil temps on non egr, no def, no VGT turbo, no particle filter, no catalyst. 500 hp 12.7 liter Detroit S60. Btw, the best diesel engine ever made. Truck 2021 Cascadia Glider. 

 

I went to St. Louis area maxed out at 80000 pounds pulling 20 ft box on tri axle chassis. 45000 pounds load. Anything over 37000 in 20 ft container has to go on much longer chassis due to bridge formula law. 

Long chassis creates huge gap between tractor and container, consequently aero drag is enormous. Mpg drops like rock. 

It probably takes 350 hp just to maintain 70 mph. Engine works hard under those conditions.

 

Anyway, coolant AND oil temps were  around 170 F deg. So oil temps are about 50-60 deg lower vs. 2022 EPA compliant Mack 13 liter engine or basically Volvo D13 with different paint job. 

 

Outside of racetrack you would never ever see those sustained well over 200F degrees oil temperatures on water cooled motorcycles.

And, what was the claim by our expert? Oil temps are always much higher vs. coolant, and Harley is stupid to recommend diesel oil for their hot running air cooled mills?

False on both claims. 

 

Coolant left of tach top, oil gauge right below.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SwampNut]

On 3/22/2023 at 1:01 AM, Northern Fox said:

At our largest Harley dealer in this area, they of course carry HD oil but no one buys it. Reason is, they also carry Amsoil

 

Which one is more ludicrously overpriced?  Which one has more of a cult following?  That's gotta be an interesting competition.

 

Last week, I had an oil conversation with a sailboat owner.  Those of you who know the stereotype of sailboat people are already laughing.  He said his oil temp always read 170-180, but water was 160.  I kept suggesting that he double check this, maybe even just swap the wires, as this seems extremely unlikely for a small saildrive diesel.  They typically have a water thermostat of 180-190 and oil should be cooler on these low-work motors.  He seemed adamant that something was broken and he should disassemble the motor.  Instead of...swapping wires.

 

He later left in a rage and near-fighting stance when my boatmate suggested that George Floyd contributed to his own death, so yeah, one of those types.

 

[XXBirdSlapper]

It's awesome when TOMEK posts pictures on the internet of his illegal driving exploits. 

[superhawk996]

20 hours ago, SwampNut said:

 

Which one is more ludicrously overpriced?  Which one has more of a cult following?  That's gotta be an interesting competition.

 

Last week, I had an oil conversation with a sailboat owner.  Those of you who know the stereotype of sailboat people are already laughing.  He said his oil temp always read 170-180, but water was 160.  I kept suggesting that he double check this, maybe even just swap the wires, as this seems extremely unlikely for a small saildrive diesel.  They typically have a water thermostat of 180-190 and oil should be cooler on these low-work motors.  He seemed adamant that something was broken and he should disassemble the motor.  Instead of...swapping wires.

 

He later left in a rage and near-fighting stance when my boatmate suggested that George Floyd contributed to his own death, so yeah, one of those types.

 

I don't know what the temps should be for that motor, but the easiest way to know if the wires are switched is to see which one warms up after startup.  For the oil to warm up the engine needs to be loaded, warmup in neutral will heat up the coolant.  If it's raw water cooled the same would apply, but the thermostat would likely be in the 140-160 area so his reading might be correct.

 

But since he's a bitch, let him disassemble the motor over potentially nothing.  I might have suggested that he do some research to see if maybe his boat has an alternative source of propulsion allowing him to not use the engine.