aptyp Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 I am completly new to the poser point system. Have no idea how many I am making by delinking. May be I get more because I can not stand a Corbin seat ???In any case, the operation went well, everything was an easy fit. The bleeding is allways time consuming and tomorow I will riding, sorry posing. Joke apart, the information was just given to compare prices for different kits available. For the rest to each is own. Is it better, could be a long debate. Do I like it better, yes. Sweet! Give us an update after 1000 miles. Let's see if your opinion changes then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dion Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Ok, considering that I just did the front tire, checked the bearings replace the pads, brake fluid and clutch fluid tonight. (A lot of back and forth from the computer to the garage to computer, now which fargin bleeder does what?!!??!!!?.)(whom ever posted "Not automatic..." thanks bra) I think I understand how this system works. The Front brakes on the bird are just a plain old two piston dual caliper system. end of story. The hydraulics of the front don't connect to the rear at all. The rear system is another story. It alone goes to both the front and rear calipers. Here's how it works, Part 1 If you step on the rear brake the system has a line from the master cyl to actuate the center piston of the rear caliper. It also has a second line from the rear master cyl that runs the that block on the front fork then to the center pistons in the front calipers. Part 2 That block on the the front fork also feeds the piston connected to the left caliper. This is a secondary master cyl in the rear hydraulic system. When the front calipers are actived by either the front lever or rear pedal, the left caliper pivots and activates this third master cyl. This then sends fluid through the proportion control valve to the two outside pistons in the rear caliper. In Effect our birds have three seperate braking systems although two are fed by the rear master cyl. So if you want... If the LBS only functioned one-way, such that engaging the front partially engaged the rear, I could live with it. However, if I need to trail the rear brake through a turn I do not want the bike standing up because the system is applying the front brake for me. simply reverse the two lines on the rear caliper. disconnect and cap the line that supplies the front center pistons use your short lines to connect the front system to the front center pistons bypass or remove the PCV Now you a two piston rear or six piston duals front/single piston rear. Or with a series of valves or line locks you can create a system that you could reconfigure on the fly anyway you like. Just some ideas. But if anybody makes money off this idea I want my cut Night yall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquokka Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 new to the xx ownership. how bad is the LBS on front brake in gravel. hell, now i'm worried in the wet and the gravel on my new bike. i used a controlled rear wheel slide in both cases to slow down on my old 900rr(not actually stopping then would use controlled front brake). now i'm really interested in dion's previous post. capping the feed to the front should alleviate this issue. love the bike, but suspension and braking issues are now summer projects. cheers a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc driver Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 I am also fairly new to LBS. One thing I did when I first got the 'bird was to actually see what controls what. After reading this thread, I'm concerned something might be malfunctioning with mine. According to all posts I've read, both brake levers control their respective brake and a proportion of the other brake. I put my 'bird on the center-stand and actuated the rear brake pedal and both brakes applied. However, when I actuated the front brake, only the front brake applied. No matter how tightly I squeezed, the rear spun freely. I have a '97, so is the LBS on that year different, or is something wrong with mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXTi Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 The bike has to be moving for the front brake to actuate the rear. You can simulate bike motion by lifting up on the left caliper. That should move the secondary master cylinder and apply the rear brake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 So in effect, the front brake will only actuate the rear if you are MOVING FORWARD. The rear break will NOT be applied by the front brake lever if you are standing still. Other than allowing someone to do a burnout, what possible benefit did Honda see by designing the rear brake to actuate ONLY when the bike is moving forward? Pehaps so the rear brake won't actuate when backing up. Seems like another unnecessary complication of the braking system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted June 1, 2004 Share Posted June 1, 2004 It's a fairly clever way of metering the amount of back brake you get from applying the front lever. The harder you pull the lever, the harder the front caliper bites the disc, and the more torque is applied to the secondary master cylinder on the fork leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pace Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Not to be pedantic, but it's actually torque that is needed at the front caliper, not forward motion per se. In theory, you could lock the front brake from a standstill, release the clutch, and with enough traction and power you could cause the rear brake to engage. In practice, however this approach does not generate the torque necessary to activate the slave cylinder. I agree that it's a pretty clever design. -Pace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBS150 Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 After riding for about 1500 miles with de linked brakes, I can say that no matter how much better the LBS is compare to my ability for braking, I am keeping it de linked. The feeling at the lever is quite different now but I am not sure I need to change the master cylinder. It is a strange feeling at first because it seems that the lever has no efect and travel is a bit longer. On the opposite, one has to be carefull with the back one. That one can be locked easily. Funny enough or sadly enough, I had to test the my brakes for emergency. A pick up truck loaded with empty pallets started to loose them. I can say that there is enough power on those brakes to stop the bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 This delinking thing has been around awhile now and I personally can't see it. I consider myself an experienced rider (on and off road) and I think the LBS is GREAT! I've played in fine sand on the side of the road by stomping on the rear pedal alone and can't lock either wheel. The bike just stops really hard. Attacking the twisties I've had no problems, never did a track day though. Especially now with fresh EBC's all around, every time I brake I'm still impressed. My old V65 Sabre had a REALLY sensitive rear brake. If you looked at it wrong it locked! I barely used it. As far as bleeding goes, it's slightly more complicated and takes more fluid, but no big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInBlack Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 Hello, I'm new to this forum. I recently bought a '97 Blackbird from a friend of mine. He had de-linked the brakes by installing 2 braided lines from the master cylinder which then split to mount to the 2 spots on each front caliper. He had a machine shop make an aluminum brace to replace that piston thingy on the left caliper. The rear just has a single looped line to replace the linked setup. It works well. I like to use the rear brake on slow maneuvers and also to trail brake on corners. It seems pretty hard to actually lock up the rear and I've hit it kinda hard a couple times. Linking front and rear when you grab the front brake appears like a generally good idea. I think people have problems with having the front grab when you hit the rear... Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 What you just described pretty much sums up de-link kits that you can buy ready made, with a couple exceptions in how the lines are run. The lines just about anybody could come up with, but the bracket is a bit of a rub if you don't know a good machinist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-lax Posted June 11, 2004 Share Posted June 11, 2004 I occasionally ride as a courier on my F2 throughout Mpls. Can't imagine shit, stop/go traffic without use of my rear only. I haven't had a problem with the LBS in the 2 days I've owned the XX, but I don't think I would ever use it in that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sertman Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 I removed my LBS about a year ago with the 321...i guess after riding sport bikes since they were invented (sorry, 1984 gpz750turbo), i just couldn't stand not being able to differentiate brake bias. i think if you are a experienced rider you'll be happier with out LBS. if your a newbie, you probably wont appreciate the control factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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