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Electrical issue on my '97


Dotetcher

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Took my '97 out for a spin yesterday. Didn't get far from home and noticed speedo and tach are both at 0 while moving. Headlight not working. Other indicators on dash are reacting as if very low voltage. Bike also stumbles and dies as if no voltage. In the past this would suggest dead battery/stator/regulator possibilities. I replaced the stator last year. Battery is fine. Got the bike home and let it sit for a bit. Started it up and at idle from the battery voltage is measuring 13.8 volts. Rev it a bit and voltage drops to 12.3 and symptoms reappear. So I'm thinking bad rectifier. That being said wouldn't a battery with good charge/voltage keep everything running until it is drained? Like I said battery is fine. I turn bike off. Turn key back on all llights except low beam (might be dead as high beam works)  are as they should be and hit the starter. There's a slight hesitation and then bike fires up with same issues described above. What do you think?

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Having enough juice to re-start it makes it unlikely that low voltage would be the cause of the other stuff.  Maybe the R/R is letting AC current from the stator into the system and that fucked with the gauges and ignition.  That would't keep the headlight from working, but as you said, it might have already been dead.  Or maybe the voltage spiked high before you got home to test stuff and that burnt it out.

 

You could check for AC with your meter, just set it to AC instead of DC and put the leads on the battery as usual.  With a normal functioning system on cars I usually see a tiny bit, I wanna say around .2V but it's been a long time.  I assume it would take a fair bit more than that to mess with stuff and the reading would be high enough to not leave doubt, but don't know for sure.  If in doubt check any cars/other bikes you have around to get an idea of how much is normal.  I'm guessing the reading might be different with different meters so getting a 'base line' with your meter isn't a bad idea.

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25 minutes ago, Dotetcher said:

Took my '97 out for a spin yesterday. Didn't get far from home and noticed speedo and tach are both at 0 while moving. Headlight not working. Other indicators on dash are reacting as if very low voltage. Bike also stumbles and dies as if no voltage. In the past this would suggest dead battery/stator/regulator possibilities. I replaced the stator last year. Battery is fine. Got the bike home and let it sit for a bit. Started it up and at idle from the battery voltage is measuring 13.8 volts. Rev it a bit and voltage drops to 12.3 and symptoms reappear. So I'm thinking bad rectifier. That being said wouldn't a battery with good charge/voltage keep everything running until it is drained? Like I said battery is fine. I turn bike off. Turn key back on all llights except low beam (might be dead as high beam works)  are as they should be and hit the starter. There's a slight hesitation and then bike fires up with same issues described above. What do you think?

 

Recheck your stator and R/R.  My bike had the low voltage thing and it was the coil going out.

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44 minutes ago, Dotetcher said:

Battery is fine.

 

Like I said battery is fine. 

 

Can you quantify this?  I only ask, respectfully, because I don't personally know your knowledge level, and in my experience, it's almost always the battery.

 

If you can replace "fine" with "12.8v at rest after not running/charging it for a day", I'd feel better about going down the rabbit hole. 

 

FWIW, my '97 exhibited exactly the same symptoms on a road trip after I had just gone through and tested the system and upgraded the R/R.  I messed with it for days in the middle of my vacation because I knew the battery was "fine".  Guess what I bought at Autozone that fixed it? 

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6 minutes ago, IcePrick said:

 

Can you quantify this?  I only ask, respectfully, because I don't personally know your knowledge level, and in my experience, it's almost always the battery.

 

If you can replace "fine" with "12.8v at rest after not running/charging it for a day", I'd feel better about going down the rabbit hole. 

 

FWIW, my '97 exhibited exactly the same symptoms on a road trip after I had just gone through and tested the system and upgraded the R/R.  I messed with it for days in the middle of my vacation because I knew the battery was "fine".  Guess what I bought at Autozone that fixed it? 

One of my friends went through this with his car randomly having battery issues with a 'good' battery.  He finally replaced it against my advice and that cured it.  I took his 'bad' battery and used it for a few years 'till it actually died.  He had a bad connection at a battery terminal that got cleaned up while replacing the battery.  Months later when I told him I was still using his 'dead' battery he was in disbelief.  I've had several customers have 'battery issues' that were merely connection issues.  It should be impossible for a connection to flow 200 amps to the starter and not allow the charging current in, it happens.

 

 

Which reminded me that I forgot to add "check the battery connections thoroughly" to my previous post to Dotetcher

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32 minutes ago, superhawk996 said:

Coil?

 

Stator coil.  IIRC, the stator consists of three coils working together.  Two were working, the third was not.

 

Based on the symptoms, I'd troubleshoot the whole electrical system.

 

Quote

....speedo and tach are both at 0 while moving. Headlight not working. Other indicators on dash are reacting as if very low voltage. Bike also stumbles and dies as if no voltage....I replaced the stator last year. Battery is fine. Got the bike home and let it sit for a bit. Started it up and at idle from the battery voltage is measuring 13.8 volts. Rev it a bit and voltage drops to 12.3 and symptoms reappear. So I'm thinking bad rectifier....

 

Low voltage can be any number of things.  My R/R was fine.  Battery was fine.  The stator failing slowing drained the battery to failure.  Having replaced a part doesn't mean the new part isn't also bad (sometimes you get a bad one).  Test stator output.  If good, install good battery and check R/R.  Once all suspect parts are dealt with, look for issue outside of the primary electrical system...like a short shunting voltage out of the system.

 

I had my speedo go out intermittently, but it turned out to be gunk getting splattered on the pickup sensor for the speedometer.  Once I cleaned it off and changed the oil, the malfunction went away.

Edited by Zero Knievel
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46 minutes ago, IcePrick said:

 

Can you quantify this?  I only ask, respectfully, because I don't personally know your knowledge level, and in my experience, it's almost always the battery.

 

If you can replace "fine" with "12.8v at rest after not running/charging it for a day", I'd feel better about going down the rabbit hole. 

 

FWIW, my '97 exhibited exactly the same symptoms on a road trip after I had just gone through and tested the system and upgraded the R/R.  I messed with it for days in the middle of my vacation because I knew the battery was "fine".  Guess what I bought at Autozone that fixed it? 

Bike has set overnight. Battery is reading 12.8-12.9 volts.

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19 minutes ago, Zero Knievel said:

 

Stator coil.  IIRC, the stator consists of three coils working together.  Two were working, the third was not.

 

Based on the symptoms, I'd troubleshoot the whole electrical system.

 

 

Low voltage can be any number of things.  My R/R was fine.  Battery was fine.  The stator failing slowing drained the battery to failure.  Having replaced a part doesn't mean the new part isn't also bad (sometimes you get a bad one).  Test stator output.  If good, install good battery and check R/R.  Once all suspect parts are dealt with, look for issue outside of the primary electrical system...like a short shunting voltage out of the system.

 

I had my speedo go out intermittently, but it turned out to be gunk getting splattered on the pickup sensor for the speedometer.  Once I cleaned it off and changed the oil, the malfunction went away.

Considering battery voltage is fine throughout this issue I'm thinking it may be R/R. I have one on order. but won't be getting to it for a while. Leaving for a 1 month this coming weekend. Thanks for your input.

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42 minutes ago, superhawk996 said:

 

 

1 hour ago, IcePrick said:

 

I only ask, respectfully, because I don't personally know your knowledge level, and in my experience, it's almost always the battery.

 

 

I'm smarter than I look. :)

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32 minutes ago, Dotetcher said:

Considering battery voltage is fine throughout this issue I'm thinking it may be R/R. I have one on order. but won't be getting to it for a while. Leaving for a 1 month this coming weekend. Thanks for your input.

Mosfet?

http://www.roadstercycle.com/index.htm

 

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2 minutes ago, RXX said:

Lots of pretty talk. Let me axe you just 1 question. Have you load-tested the battery?


Good point.  Sometimes that’s the only way to tell something is wrong with a battery.

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It started the bike twice in a row, with a slight hesitation the second time, and the voltage was very good the next day...suspicious.  That has me leaning towards a bad connection which could be the cables or inside the battery.  Not common, but I've had a few batteries that had internal connection issues.  Press/tweak on the terminal and it would make/break the connection.  

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4 hours ago, Zero Knievel said:


Good point.  Sometimes that’s the only way to tell something is wrong with a battery.

 

Based on the time I've spent chasing issues that weren't, I would simply replace the battery.  I have the luxury burden of having several motorcycles, so I almost always have a battery I can swap out to test with.  Though right now, batteries are missing, bad, or questionable in 4 out of 5 bikes.   

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I've never seen a battery that held voltage and passed a load test that had a problem.  I have had a few bad ones that passed the test with a non-load inductive battery analyzer, load tester proved they were shot.  Most parts stores don't load test, they use the inductive testers only, unless things have changed in the last several months.

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20 minutes ago, blackhawkxx said:

To be honest, I don't know but the one at Advanced had cooling fans coming on like a laptop when working hard.

If that was a handheld tester then it probably did load.  If it was the big machine in the store it's a charger so it would have a fan, and it might also do load testing.  A few years ago I took a pair of dead batteries to Oreilly and they passed their test, not a load tester.  The batteries were under warranty but they wouldn't replace them because their machine said they were good.  I did more tests to be sure, took them back, and luckily they took my word for it that they were dead so I got new ones.  I also had one that would self-discharge that passed their test.  I offered to leave it over night for them to re-test in the morning, they took my word for it.  Little bonuses of being well known there.

 

My big Midtronics analyzer does a combination of loading, charging, and resting while analyzing, it takes a few minutes to give a result.  Unless the battery is super fucked then it quickly tells you so.  My handheld only does inductive testing and only takes a few seconds.  None of the inductive testers I've seen have any cooling because they don't create heat, they're just a closed plastic box.  Load testers create lots of heat that has to get out.

Edited by superhawk996
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Thank you Thank you for this post  :D

 

You just solved a problem for me and provided the answer I needed.

 

I have a John Deere tractor, and back about 2 years ago, the original battery died.

 

I have always loved DieHard batteries, which used to come from Sears long ago.

 

Now, a local Advance Auto parts store carries them, so got one.

 

It didn't make it a year, but thankfully it came with an unlimited warranty for 2 years as long as I had the original receipt.

 

I am NOW on my 3rd DieHard.     

 

The RUB was, every time I went in to have it replaced, the dweeb behind the counter tested it and says it's fine.

 

I said, don't care.  The warranty says, you need to replace no matter what, so they have done so.

 

Now that I saw the above, I realize they were just doing a normal voltage check and NOT a load test.

 

Fuckers....   GGGRRRRR

 

Soon the warranty will expire and if this latest one dies like the others, I will likely move over to InterState, unless anyone here likes a better brand.

 

Mystery solved     WOOHOOO 

Edited by lordzarkon
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Die Hards were good a very long time ago, then went to shit.  Haven't seen one in many years so no idea how they are today.  Interstate has a strong following, in my experience they kinda suck.  I use Walmart and Oreilly house brand and have had good luck with both.

 

I don't know why battery love/hate is so mixed.  Maybe different areas get different batteries with the same name, or just people's luck and/or prejudice.

 

Check your tractor's charging system to make sure it's not killing them.  If it sits for long periods that could be what's killing them and charging between uses should help.

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